Careless of inconsiderate driving?

[Shootist]

The main prosecution in a driving collision case is nearly always careless driving. Inconsiderate driving rarely gets a look in and is often regarded as a relatively minor offence. My opinion is that inconsiderate driving should be by far the worse offence. Every driver who has driven for more than a few months has driven without due care and attention at some time, and however briefly. It's part of being human and will never go away. Same for cyclists, everyone of who has at sometime failed to apply full concentration. Anyone who says otherwise is either a liar or a fool.

But what of the inconsiderate driver? IMO, an inconsiderate driver is taking a decision that puts another road user at risk, and usually he ain't bothered. In fact, he often does it deliberately, with the <moderated> you attitude. It is, again IMO, the precursor to reckless driving and should be punished far more severely than careless.

Any thoughts?

[661-Pete]

The precise wording of the RTA 1988 is:

If a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place, he is guilty of an offence.

That suggests to me that these actions amount to the same offence.

[Shootist]

The precise wording of the RTA 1988 is:

If a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place, he is guilty of an offence.

That suggests to me that these actions amount to the same offence.

They are, in effect, part of the same offence, but the charge for each will read differently. For instance, a car driving through a puddle to soak a pedestrian would be inconsiderate driving, while rear ending a car would be careless. Practically speaking though, the inconsiderate wing of the offence has always been thought of as somehow a lesser offence, often receiving a lesser sentence.

[jatindersangha]

In 5 or so years of commuting by bike I've only reported a handful of drivers to the police.

One of them was in the City of London - a person who was driving a big truck extremely closely behind me on a road that narrowed considerably due to roadworks. I was shit-scared of turning around to look at it in case I wobbled or veered towards it - that's how close I felt it was to me. All I could do was pedal as fast as I could in the hope that I stayed ahead of it.

No camera etc - but the City of London police immediately checked the CCTV in the area, agreed that he was driving at the very least inconsiderately and contacted him. They did pressure me into not going to court and having the driver attend an awareness course instead, which I was OK with at the time.

So yes, some police forces will investigate properly - with the correct attitude that all road users matter.

Nowadays, I'd want to see the <moderated> in court and receive points on his licence because now I feel that an awareness course is just a masquerade - neither a punishment nor a deterrent.

Of course, I could tell you of my experiences with the Metropolitan police or Surrey police (both simply not interested)...

--Jatinder

[Postboxer]

Is that because police can make money from courses but not from fines or is that only for speeding?

[661-Pete]

In nearly 60 years of cycling, I've reported about four drivers to the police.

Or to be more accurate, I've reported four incidents: in one of them the vehicle couldn't be identified so it got no further. I got one person cautioned and another 'put on file'. And there was the guy who knocked me off, but it wasn't I who reported that, the police arrived anyway, summoned by witnesses. That offender got put on a Driver Awareness course.

Maybe some cyclists act more as 'magnets' than others...

[millimole]

In nearly 60 years of cycling, I've reported about four drivers to the police.

Maybe some cyclists act more as 'magnets' than others...

It's a very good question.
In my 45 years I've had dealings with the police maybe 4 times.
I don't experience the levels of aggression some cyclists appear to, and don't seem to have the same rate of 'incidents' others do. I didn't when I was regularly commuting and I don't now.
This could be due to a higher level of tolerance; the areas I ride in; my style of riding (including speed & positioning); or the way I dress; or my relative visibility.
It would be interesting to study the differences between those who seem to experience a high level of incidents and those that don't seem to.

[jatindersangha]

...
It would be interesting to study the differences between those who seem to experience a high level of incidents and those that don't seem to.
...

Yes, that would be a good idea.

My own history is as follow:

Started cycling on my old hybrid bike (only used when cycling off road with the kids!) during the evenings/weekends, a few years ago to lose weight/get fitter. Dressed in shorts/t-shirt/trainers etc. No real issues.

Decided to commute to the local train station (3.5 miles) to get those extra few miles in & save by not using the car/bus. Dressed in shirt/jacket/trousers/shoes etc with a satchel. No real issues.

Bought a road-bike and did even more leisure miles...Discovered that long rides in summer aren't very comfortable in shorts/underwear etc - so tried padded shorts/lycra. Started to get close passes, beeping horns, yells of abuse. Even had 1 driver go out of his way to follow me...

But still no issues on my commute (dressed in shirt/trousers).

Bought a folding bike so I could continue my commute in London, saving on tube fares, plus I now decided to cycle to the main train station (6 miles) to save even more on train fares (combination of enjoying the cycling and having to convince the wife that a new bike would save money Dressed in lycra as I had plenty of it and the extra mileage really wasn't suitable to do in shirt/trousers etc. Now getting more close passes, beeping horns, swearing etc on the commute.

As far as I can tell, my riding style is the same when I'm commuting or on leisure rides...

The differences over time are firstly, the bike and the clothing - as I moved away from a "normal" hybrid bike and "normal" everyday clothes to something that "marked" me as more of a "cyclist" then I noticed how the close passes etc increased.
The second difference was that with a new road-bike/lycra, I was going on longer rides, more hills etc - so perhaps spent more time "frustrating" motorists.

My opinion is that it's a combination of motorists attitudes and the often narrow, windy lanes where I live (Surrey).

The road I hate, the A322, I actually used every day for a few years, all without incident whilst cycling in a shirt/trousers. The first time I did it on my folding bike wearing lycra - I thought to myself "this road's bloody dangerous".

--Jatinder

[Annoying Twit]

That's an interesting view.

I find that drivers tend to treat me with respect. I typically don't wear lyrca/cycling gear, I wear normal clothes and a high-vis top. Typically I'm riding an obvious commuter bike, not a racing bike.

While I'll fail if anyone challenges me to find the source, I thought there was research showing that drivers drive closer to someone wearing a helmet than they do to someone without a helmet. (Which is interesting in the light of SMIDSY). Perhaps there are other consequences of looking like an 'advanced' (for want of a better word) cyclist.

[millimole]

You are right I think it was Peter Walker from Bath Uni who did the research that looked into dress style and driver behaviour.
I tend towards the 'normal' end of the clothing spectrum most of the time - and have actively tried to find cycling specific clothing that doesn't mark me out as a 'cyclist'. I haven't done that with 'driver behaviour' in mind, but I do wonder if it makes a considerable difference. However - as with the risk compensation argument (helmets) I wonder if wearing 'the uniform' can alter the behaviour of the wearer towards other road users?

[661-Pete]

Me too: I very rarely wear shorts, let alone lycra or other cycle-specific kit (apart from the shoes, which people won't notice anyway). Yes I certainly believe there's something in it. And not just the 'lycra lout' trope beloved of the tabloids...

[foxyrider]

interesting stuff. I wear 'lycra' - there I said it. So I've personally had experience of the helmet phenomenom, it really does happen but something else strange too - pannier bags. If I ride without bags I get the usual treatment but same bike with a bag on and suddenly its like a target and everyone is aiming for me! This may be a response to all the 'nouveau' commuters riding through lights, on and off pavements and generally terrorising the populace, having no regard for law, safety or etiquette. One of these I had to actually talk to the other week after she rode up my inside when I was riding P1 (what happened to overtake on the right?), she was doing all of the above wearing a 'Sky ride leader' reflective - its no wonder drivers get irked by some riders antics when someone supposedly having some experience rides in such a poor way, it annoys me on my bike.