Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

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irc
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Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

Post by irc »

reohn2 wrote:All odd, and smacks of organised crime IMHO.


Sounds not too unusual for an overworked prosecution and court service. Once it's at court and the defence and prosecution agree there is insufficient evidence to identify the driver it's always going to be a conviction of S172 RTA and nothing else.

Go and sit in a court. There are always amendments getting made, charges dropped for lack of evidence, charges dropped to get a plea on other charges. If it's a anything the way it works in Scotland there is one prosecutor per court. On the day there will be a dozen or more cases scheduled for trial. The prosecutor won't necessarily have seen any of the cases before that morning. So he won't be up to speed with the finer points of the evidence. Some cases will be put off because the accused hasn't turned or witnesses haven't turned up. Other may be delayed for legal reason. The prosecutor will be left with a handful of cases ready to go to trial but with a court that only has time to run one or two trials per day.
Some cases may have to be put off to another day. Do that too often though and a defence lawyer will argue it get dropped as the delay is unfair to his client. The comes the negotiation. Lawyers will suggest that while their client would plead to charge A he denies charges B & C. If the actual evidence is not 100% perhaps relying on witnesses of variable quality it might be thought that a plea to charge A is acceptable.

I believe Glasgow Sheriff and Magistrates courts are not as busy as they used to be. More low level crimes getting dealt with by tickets etc. But Tuesday this week there was 281 criminal cases being dealt with by Glasgow Sheriff Court.

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/current-b ... 74aa7#COP2

Obviously as a cyclist I feel the case wasn't given a high enough priority by the police or CPS but there is a lot of competition for limited police and court time.
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Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

Post by Samuel D »

irc wrote:Obviously as a cyclist I feel the case wasn't given a high enough priority by the police or CPS but there is a lot of competition for limited police and court time.

But it’s a vicious circle: many of those who get away with a crime feel they may get away with another, and another, and another. Thus lives are wrecked (both victims and serial perpetrators), societies are blighted with the fear of crime and a sense of injustice, and even more time is ultimately needed by the police and court to deal however sloppily with the higher resulting levels of crime.

Taking seriously problems such as the present hit-and-run incident has many knock-on benefits. It is certainly worth the time of any police force or criminal justice system that can see beyond its nose.
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Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

Post by irc »

Samuel D wrote:Taking seriously problems such as the present hit-and-run incident has many knock-on benefits. It is certainly worth the time of any police force or criminal justice system that can see beyond its nose.


I agree. I think it should have had a higher priority. It still doesn't mean there would have been a conviction though.

I don't think the victim has mentioned whether his incident was investigated by a traffic cop. Probably not. Traffic depts used to have the expertise and time to investigate serious road traffic crimes. I'd class this as serious due to the nature of the apparently deliberate nature, the vulnerable victim and the injuries. Traffic depts have been one of the places where police budget cuts have hit. If the traffic cops aren't there anymore then traffic enforcement is not going to be as good.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/c ... five-years
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Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

Post by reohn2 »

I think we're all agreed the incident wasn't investigated with any amount of vigour or expertise,that as I speculated up thread is most likely due to a poor and undermanned police force followed by a poor and insufficient CPS.
As Samuel D posted,it means the guilty go free and the system is played like a cheap violin in the hands of a maestro who knows just what the instrument is capable of.
You don't need to be Philadelphia lawyer to see what's going on,close the loopholes,equip and train the police,enable the courts,and the bad guys lose,or at least the vast majority will,as it is they're having a beano at our expense.
But the major plus is the rest of society would get a better night's sleep and an easier life.

As it is the system is pathetic to the n'th degree,and no one gives a stuff.

The last time I was in a court(of sorts) was at my granddaughter's inquest,I had first hand experience how incompetent the police are at enforcing the law,confirmed by my own experience reporting bullying motorists when cycling,and other unbelievably incompetent cases reported on these boards.

With regards to the whole system,the term useless springs immediately to mind,gangsters paradise is another! :twisted:

EDITED for typos
Last edited by reohn2 on 10 Feb 2016, 4:36pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

Post by tyreon »

The saps are the ones who get the convictions. The Masters are those that evade. Whilst many things appear to me inequitable the lower orders are looking to our Masters in Westminster in how chicanery works. And,you know what? they're catching up. It's both depressing and cheering.

I'm not quite clear in how the flow-chart works in evading justice but in the Top Ten must be...spin the case out...defer,ignore,go sick,lose papers...I think with no offence,Italy's justice system maybe a tad above our own. We're learning tho!
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Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

Post by reohn2 »

tyreon wrote:The saps are the ones who get the convictions. The Masters are those that evade. Whilst many things appear to me inequitable the lower orders are looking to our Masters in Westminster in how chicanery works. And,you know what? they're catching up. It's both depressing and cheering.

I'm not quite clear in how the flow-chart works in evading justice but in the Top Ten must be...spin the case out...defer,ignore,go sick,lose papers...I think with no offence,Italy's justice system maybe a tad above our own. We're learning tho!


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Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

Post by horizon »

irc wrote:
Obviously as a cyclist I feel the case wasn't given a high enough priority by the police or CPS but there is a lot of competition for limited police and court time.


I think there's a lot of "push and pull" between the outrage felt against the driver and the lameness of the prosecution. If either one could be resolved, then the other would cease to be significant. I think that's what gives this case legs. I agree with you that prosecution is a tricky matter for all sorts of reasons and often no other redress is sought - somebody gets off a drug possession charge for example or a shoplifter at Tesco walks free from court (there are plenty of so-called "victimless crimes"). OTOH, had the driver owned up or been named and shamed in the press (not physically attacked or bricks through the window) then I think people would be more accepting of the lack of police action.
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Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
I was thinking today maybe the cyclist knows the drivers, not knows who they are, and there might be history, I am not slating the cyclist at all.
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Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

Post by Vantage »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
I was thinking today maybe the cyclist knows the drivers, not knows who they are, and there might be history, I am not slating the cyclist at all.


Not according to the you tube videos he's put up.
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Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

Post by Steady rider »

In suitable cases, particularly when driving into cyclists or other serious motoring offences should a motoring tag be required to be carried by the driver whenever using a vehicle, allowing tracking. In this way if they put cyclists or other at risk and are reported, the time and location may help ID them. Suggest a period of 10 years.
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Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

Post by Flinders »

If it was all accurately done, down to the hopeless prosecution and incompetent policing, it would make a good documentary. Too many people think the police and the courts works like they do on TV crime series rather than being the shambles they are increasingly becoming.

When all has been said and done, had the victim been someone 'important', I'm sure the case would have gone completely differently from start to finish. That's what's most galling to me. Only the rich get justice (but the rich can swerve it as well when they are the perpetrators).
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Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

Post by reohn2 »

Flinders wrote:If it was all accurately done, down to the hopeless prosecution and incompetent policing, it would make a good documentary. Too many people think the police and the courts works like they do on TV crime series rather than being the shambles they are increasingly becoming.

When all has been said and done, had the victim been someone 'important', I'm sure the case would have gone completely differently from start to finish. That's what's most galling to me. Only the rich get justice (but the rich can swerve it as well when they are the perpetrators).


Spot on,on both counts.
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Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

Post by horizon »

Flinders wrote:If it was all accurately done, down to the hopeless prosecution and incompetent policing, it would make a good documentary.


This was my hope too. Reginald Scott has done an amazing job.
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Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

Post by Mark R »

So Volvo man turns out the be claiming long term disability benefit and with his wife being his carer. Well well, I honestly wasn't expecting that.

What are the chances that his original vehicle, which was in for repair, was provided by the state - in which case he probably doesn't even have to pay his own insurance premium.

Perhaps one good outcome would be for this deadbeat to get fast tracked for a reassessment of his 'disability'

*********** 28th September 2015 - Nottingham Magistrates court ************** Failure to identify driver ------- £150 fine ------ 6 Penalty points
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Re: Brutal hit & run - Nottingham

Post by irc »

Mark R wrote:So Volvo man turns out the be claiming long term disability benefit and with his wife being his carer. Well well, I honestly wasn't expecting that.

What are the chances that his original vehicle, which was in for repair, was provided by the state - in which case he probably doesn't even have to pay his own insurance premium.


It is likely to be a Motability car he drives when it isn't being repaired after other crashes. Motability also provide the insurance which can be withdrawn after serious RTA convictions. Is 6 pts for failing to name a driver serious enough? Will he declare his conviction to them?
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