Main roads that don't allow cycling

[pwa]

The A449 / A40 dual carriageway from the M4 near Newport up to Monmouth has No Cycling signs in places, though I vaguely remember noticing an absence of signs somewhere. But it's not really a problem because the road is almost a Motorway and there are excellent, lovely lane routes running parallel for most of its length. You'd have to have very strange priorities to want to cycle on it.

[millimole]

The description of some of the A roads above (A19 A14 etc) are why I have very mixed feelings about the suggestions that have been floating about regarding Highways England's rumoured aim of banning cyclists (etc) from the 'Strategic Road Network'. Most of the roads we are talking about are motorways-in-all-but-name and many have much more suitable / pleasant alternatives. While I want to defend my right to ride on A roads, I can't see why I want to in these cases.
The other side of the coin is when they start trying to ban us from A roads where there are no alternatives - such as large parts of the A5 round here - which are unpleasant, but where there are no alternatives.
How far along the thin edge of the wedge are we prepared to go?

[Chiz]

For me, cyclists being prohibited from any particular road will only be acceptable when a practical alternative is offered. By that I mean quite literally a segregated cycle/pedestrian route running alongside the road in question. It may not sound pleasant cycling alongside what is essentially a motorway but not every cyclist is out there for the enjoyment of the ride, some just want to get where they're going.

I don't live too far from the A19, if I felt the urge to cycle down to Teesside my options aren't particularly direct compared to if I chose to use my car/motorcycle. I could legally cycle down the A19 for quite some way (although I'd probably choose not to) but I'd get as far as the A689 junction and face the prohibition. The alternative from there as far as I can see is to divert through Billingham, which isn't the end of the world but it is still a diversion. At the other end of Billingham there's a shared use path that runs alongside the A19 for a bit until it reaches the Tees Flyover, motorised traffic can use the flyover but cyclists and pedestrians have to divert via Newport Bridge (when it's not being worked on), after that I'm not sure where to go to stay near the A19 as that's normally as far as I go. I assume you would have to cycle through Acklam and see where the local roads take you. I may give it a go on the bike sometime.

[pwa]

For me, cyclists being prohibited from any particular road will only be acceptable when a practical alternative is offered. By that I mean quite literally a segregated cycle/pedestrian route running alongside the road in question. It may not sound pleasant cycling alongside what is essentially a motorway but not every cyclist is out there for the enjoyment of the ride, some just want to get where they're going.

I don't live too far from the A19, if I felt the urge to cycle down to Teesside my options aren't particularly direct compared to if I chose to use my car/motorcycle. I could legally cycle down the A19 for quite some way (although I'd probably choose not to) but I'd get as far as the A689 junction and face the prohibition. The alternative from there as far as I can see is to divert through Billingham, which isn't the end of the world but it is still a diversion. At the other end of Billingham there's a shared use path that runs alongside the A19 for a bit until it reaches the Tees Flyover, motorised traffic can use the flyover but cyclists and pedestrians have to divert via Newport Bridge (when it's not being worked on), after that I'm not sure where to go to stay near the A19 as that's normally as far as I go. I assume you would have to cycle through Acklam and see where the local roads take you. I may give it a go on the bike sometime.

Banning cycling on an old road can produce the effect you describe, with no viable alternative. That needs sorting. The A449, which I mentioned earlier, is a newish dual carriageway, and cyclists can simply use the old roads (lanes) which still remain but have little traffic. No real inconvenience. It's a case by case thing.

[CliveyT]

Although why anyone in their right head would ever even think about cycling on the A14 is beyond me.

You wouldn't be the slowest on the road http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Pensioner-given-police-escort-driving-A14-mobility-scooter/story-22363159-detail/story.html. Bet you wouldn't get a police escort tho'

[Chiz]

Banning cycling on an old road can produce the effect you describe, with no viable alternative. That needs sorting. The A449, which I mentioned earlier, is a newish dual carriageway, and cyclists can simply use the old roads (lanes) which still remain but have little traffic. No real inconvenience. It's a case by case thing.

I can only comment on the A19 as it's the only one I'm familiar with.

Any new roads built (with no intention of allowing cycling from the start) MUST have a practical alternative, either by design or using existing routes (as per your example).

Definitely a case by case thing, but each one has to be examined far more than the A19 was.

On a separate-ish note, the incident and the aftermath of the cyclist being killed on that stretch was absolutely terrible, it was dragged through the local press with the usual vitriol aimed at cyclists with many commenters saying the cyclist deserved it. The driver was cleared despite hitting the cyclist (who had lights and hi-vis on, confirmed by CCTV even though a number of motorists came forward and lied about it) who was riding on the margin and not in a 'lane'.

[SA_SA_SA]

How far along the thin edge of the wedge are we prepared to go?

No banning of cyclists to be allowed unless high quality parallel direct route (no significant detours or too many give ways). I.E. such bans should be treated the same as if creating a motorway. If such an alternate route is not possible then a cycling/pedestrian etc ban should be disallowed and the road should be adjusted to be safer for all legal users, eg lower speed limit (enforced!!), reminder signs that it is an ALL-Purpose road and so slow vulnerable road users may be present etc.

[OldGreyBeard]

It does seem to be a way of creating an effective motorway at a lower cost

[Vorpal]

I think that something has to be said about the quality of the alternatives, as well. A poor quality segregated route cannot be allowed to create an excuse to ban cyclists on a good quality A road.

[Bicycler]

It does seem to be a way of creating an effective motorway at a lower cost

Exactly. Upgrading to a motorway requires non-motorway traffic to be catered for. Bung in 4 to 6 lanes of national speed limit dual carriageway A-road and you can say it's an all purpose road

[Richard Fairhurst]

Although why anyone in their right head would ever even think about cycling on the A14 is beyond me.

You wouldn't be the slowest on the road http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Pensioner-given-police-escort-driving-A14-mobility-scooter/story-22363159-detail/story.html. Bet you wouldn't get a police escort tho'

I cycled it 20 years ago from Cambridge to Huntingdon on a sit-up-and-beg bike. I didn't get a police escort. It wasn't one of my smarter ideas, to be honest.

[OldGreyBeard]

Even driving on the A14, especially at night, is an unpleasant experience. All those HGVs, the high speeds. Basically a motorway without the design features.

[Vorpal]

Pensioners have been escorted off the A12 a few times. Once a gent from Chelmsford was given an 'asbo' for holding up traffic

http://www.bbc.com/news/10303689

[Tangled Metal]

Having driven on the A19 many times over the last 5 years I can honestly say I'd rather find another means of transportation than cycle on that road. It is not much.different to a motorway.

As a kid I have ridden, on a family ride, along a stretch of dual carriageway near Southport. It was a rare event going on there because as a primary school aged kid it was terrifying. More terrifying for my dad who had to corral two young kids who probably hadn't developed fear of fast moving traffic yet. I do remember the feeling of cars and trucks passing close by. At that age it felt like we'd get blown over by a passing truck.

IMHO I've no problem with banning cyclists from such roads. It's a safety thing. What I do have a problem with is how they can be designed and built without full consideration of all who might use it or who do use whatever provision was there before any upgrade to dual carriageway. There are design standards for roads now, perhaps time for these to include adequate cycle provision. Doubt it'll happen in my lifetime and I'm only in my early 40s.

[Vorpal]

IMHO I've no problem with banning cyclists from such roads. It's a safety thing. What I do have a problem with is how they can be designed and built without full consideration of all who might use it or who do use whatever provision was there before any upgrade to dual carriageway. There are design standards for roads now, perhaps time for these to include adequate cycle provision. Doubt it'll happen in my lifetime and I'm only in my early 40s.

I have a problem with banning cycling on these roads. A roads are the most direct and flatest route in most places. In some places, there are no reasonable alternatives. In many, the alternatives are circuitous, poorly maintained, or primarily on undeveloped rights of way, such as bridle paths or BOATs.

There are some homes and businesses off the A12 that cannot be gotten to without using the A12. There are also a few places (for example the junctions near East Bergholt) where a 1/2 mile on the A12 will save 6 miles of back lanes. The back lanes are certainly more pleasant, but if you were in a hurry? Or worked at one of the businesses there? Would like to be told that you had an extra 25 minutes journey time because the road isn't safe for cyclists?

If you read viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70096 which gaz linked earlier int he thread, you will find that one cyclist found out about such a ban after being escorted off the A120 by police.