Commuting lights

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Commuting lights

Post by Tangled Metal »

The only person I've known in the last 20+ years that owned dynamo powered lights is a Dane with a bike they brought over with them. The lights only worked when moving. What is the situation with hubs like those linked to at rose bikes in Germany? Do the sorts of lights you'd use with them stay on when I stopped for a period of time? Do front and rear lights work off just one front hub? I take it you have wires connecting them. Anyone got any photos or links to photos to show the connections, especially those to transfer electricity from the turning hub to the frame of the bike and to the lights. TBH the last dynamo I've tried was a bottle one running off the rim or tyre.
Brucey
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Re: Commuting lights

Post by Brucey »

Tangled Metal wrote: Do the sorts of lights you'd use with them stay on when I stopped for a period of time?


-yes, if you buy one with a 'standlight' function, same with rear lights too.

Do front and rear lights work off just one front hub?


-yes, that is the normal arrangement.

I take it you have wires connecting them. Anyone got any photos or links to photos to show the connections, especially those to transfer electricity from the turning hub to the frame of the bike and to the lights.


http://bike.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/HubDynamo/DH-S500_3D71/2ZS0C-DH-S500_3D71-EN_v1_m56577569830600131.pdf

is typical. The plug is like a small lego brick. Schmidt generators use a slightly different arrangement (with two blades poking out of the hubshell), SRAM and SA hubs use a connector like the shimano one, but that differ from other makes in detail.

The hubs are designed such that there are magnets in the hubshell that provide an alternating field as the wheel rotates. There are windings on a stator that is attached to the axle, usually with a 'claw-pole' ironwork configuration. There are no moving contacts or anything intrinsically unreliable in the generator; if fact the only parts that move are the magnets.

The rear light connects to the front light (usually via plug-in connections) and both are switched by a switch in the headlight.

TBH the last dynamo I've tried was a bottle one running off the rim or tyre.


Not at all the same thing. With a hub generator it is silent in operation and when you want the light you just throw the switch on the headlight. When the lights are on, there is a tiny additional drag, so small that most people don't even notice it.

If you use lights for six months of the year (say) you can have the lamps secured to the bike via two bolts (eg one at the fork crown and another at the rear) and the wiring secured via tape or zip ties. The whole shooting match can come on and off the bike in less than ten minutes.

Most generators have a ground return connection if you want to use it (it is the silver coloured one on shimano hubs); thus you can use single-core wiring if you want to (as per old bottle dynamos), or twin core if you want. Most people use twin core.

If you have the lights permanently installed (or just like it to look neater) the wires can be run inside the frame. Schmidt even make versions of the generator hub whereby there are insulated contacts built into the dropouts and thus there is no plug or obvious wiring to the front wheel; see here http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt-sl.asp.

Peter White's website is worth a read for other Schmidt hubs here;http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt.asp
and shimano hubs here;http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Shimano3N70.asp

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tonyf33
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Re: Commuting lights

Post by Tonyf33 »

These appear to be well recommended http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/busc ... /wg_id-803 spend a few quid more (an extra 5 euro) and get free delivery. You get a charger and batteries incl.
or get the premium variant with 80 Lux http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;p ... ,1410,1411 though bike 24 like rose bike charges a decent wedge for postage no matter how much you order.
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Commuting lights

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Modern LED Dynamo lights:

Have proper beam patterns (unlike virtually all battery lights)
Have stand lights (so they stay on for several minutes after you stop)
Are bright (enough to be seen as too bright for a normal battery light from 1/4 mile)
Do not fail at high speed (voltage regulation is built in)


Hub dynamos:

Do not slip
Produce negligible drag (unless you are on the TdF or similar)
Do not wear out tyres
Are silent



The references to older technologies are fun, but hardly descriptive of the current market...
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syklist
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Re: Commuting lights

Post by syklist »

+1 hub dynamo and modern LED lamps. All my bikes have this set up with front and rear lights that come on automatically when it goes dark. I haven't replaced a battery or bulb on my bikes in years. The only failure was a grungy rear light contact in 2009 on tour which took a couple of minutes to fix.

Look to buy a wheel in Germany, pre-built hub dynamo wheels can be had from under 60 Euros. I can't say anything about the quality of the rims and wheel builds.

26" http://www.fahrrad-richter.de/index.php ... 15_462_464

28" http://www.fahrrad-richter.de/index.php ... 62_589_586

http://www.amazon.de/Fahrrad-Laufrad-Vorderrad-Shimano-schwarz/dp/B00743TSK4
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Vorpal
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Re: Commuting lights

Post by Vorpal »

I don't have hub dynamos (mostly because I have lots of bikes, and I just can't see investing the cost in several bikes). I might get there eventually with one, but for the moment, I have a cree type light with a rechargeable battery. Mine has four settings, high, med, low, flashing. The low is good for the road in traffic (the others are too bright), med is like high beam, and high is for unlit woods at night and the like. I seldom use the flashing mode.

I bought mine in the LBS, so paid a bit more than off eBay or something, but it has served me well. It's on it 3rd winter and still going well. On a low setting, the battery is good for a couple of hours, at least. It doesn't last as long in the cold, but it seems to be on the order of 20% less, well below zero. I keep a charging cable at work and one at home, so I don't have to carry one.

The mounting is an o-ring, so it's easy to do, even in gloves, and easy to switch from one bike to another. It's also easy to take it off, which I generally do, having had lights pinched before.
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squeaker
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Re: Commuting lights

Post by squeaker »

[XAP]Bob wrote:Modern LED Dynamo lights:
Have proper beam patterns (unlike virtually all battery lights)...
Er, except those from B&M, Trelock and Axa ;)
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mjr
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Re: Commuting lights

Post by mjr »

My worries about dynamo lights are elsewhere on this forum but my main bike is using them now and I wouldn't switch back. And the same is true for my wife's main bike.

I do still have battery lights (multiple bikes) and the tales of two hour runtime on current lights makes me think we're going backwards. My to-see battery lights do eight hours between charges. Two hours and I'd be recharging every trip in case I got delayed on the second one! Also those cheap boil-shaped lights are easily dazzling (you have to aim them something like 2m in front of the wheel to avoid it) and have no side visibility which I think is just dangerous because it leaves motorists approaching from the side with only wheel/tyre reflectors to see.

The closest comparable lights to those I use seem to be Axa Greenline and Cateye GVolt and I hope things have advanced rather than going backwards, but it seems you never know. :(
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Commuting lights

Post by [XAP]Bob »

squeaker wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:Modern LED Dynamo lights:
Have proper beam patterns (unlike virtually all battery lights)...
Er, except those from B&M, Trelock and Axa ;)

I did say virtually all - because the numbers of those lights are dwarfed by the numbers of cheap Chinese (or the original versions of them) which have mostly conical patterns.
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
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Vantage
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Re: Commuting lights

Post by Vantage »

Tangled Metal wrote:Anyone got any photos or links to photos to show the connections, especially those to transfer electricity from the turning hub to the frame of the bike and to the lights.


Took these earlier today but I've been constantly fighting Photobucket to get it to work in a way that doesn't bug me...it can't be done so I turned to flickr. Here goes...
ImageWith Cover by William McFadden, on Flickr
This one shows the plastic block that push fits onto the hubs connectors. It was supplied with the hub.

ImageStripped by William McFadden, on Flickr
With the black cover removed, you can see the wires. The cover keeps the wires secure and is needed to fit over the hub contact mount thingybob. Its very technical :?
Mine started getting a bit loose after plugging and unplugging a few times so I beefed up the wiring with a bit of solder.

ImageFront Light by William McFadden, on Flickr
The wire from the front light to the hub connection is already fitted to the light although this might vary with other lights. This is the only one I've ever had so Ive not a clue about others. Theres another length of wire with spade connectors also ready fitted incase a rear light is needed. A length of additional wire was included for this purpose.
The hub powers the front light which in turn powers the rear light. Very neat.

ImageRear Light by William McFadden, on Flickr
Aaaaaaand heres the back light connections. Again, no idea about other lights, but my B&M Topline Plus can be wired with either spade connectors or using a speaker type wire clampy type clamp. I went with the speaker type coz I lost all my spade connectors plus its easier I think.

Drag from the front hub ime is almost nothing. Loosing a couple psi in the front tyre causes more drag. Spinning the hub by hand, it feels notchy. Like the bearings are knackered but this is normal from what I understand.

I converted to dynamo last year after a long hard think about it. Initial cost is a bit high, but I've not spent a single penny on replacement batteries, recharging batteries or replacement lights since. I never have to worry that they'll die mid ride and they've not let me down once unlike several other battery lights. I wouldn't go back to battery lights if I was offered a million quid.
Bill


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millimole
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Re: Commuting lights

Post by millimole »

It is worth adding that modern dynamo hubs have little in common (performance wise) with the older Sturmey-Archer Dynohubs which some readers may remember. The modern hubs have much less resistance, and are much more suitable to 21st century conditions.
(Having said that I've got an old style Dynohub powering LED lights on one bike, but have decided to stuck with battery lighting for the rest of the stable)
Leicester; Riding my Hetchins since 1971; Day rides on my Dawes; Going to the shops on a Decathlon Hoprider
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Audax67
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Re: Commuting lights

Post by Audax67 »

661-Pete wrote:However, I must admit that battery lamps in the 1970s were pretty awful. Who else remembers the Ever-Ready front and rear lights: like these monstrosities?
ImageImage


I had even worse: a 1950s Sturmey-Archer Dynohub and a 0.5 (estimated) candlepower headlight. On a very dark night with no streetlights you could just about see a dull patch on the road in front of you.
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Tonyf33
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Re: Commuting lights

Post by Tonyf33 »

Battery lights:
Many of the good modern battery light systems have proper beam patterns, you can easily purchase a hood in any case and spill isn't enough to remove the ability to see the road in front in any case, clearly people don't know the market that well
All modern battery light can be switched on and off with multiple settings at the press of a finger so no capacitor required, not all dynamo system have that facility unless you spend more.
Are plenty bright enough when required and some can be seen up to a mile away in a straight line and as above can be adjusted easily for the conditions.
Have run times long enough for 99.99% of commuters/utility and touring types.
Modern battery lights don't fail at speed or after suffering multiple shocks or bumps or from intense wet/cold over long periods of time and ARE reliable
Can be swapped between any bike you have within seconds without getting your hands dirty.
Do not slip

Hub dynamos:

Cannot be removed to another bike in seconds
Have wheels/hub that are much heavier than a normal one
Are at least twice the cost of a very good battery light set and you end up with a cheap wheel/hub, if you want a decent set up make that three times the cost and up.
Have drag on them all the time even when 'off', when they are on, an approximate 6-7 watt loss at 12.5mph as a commuter/utility rider knocking out only 75-80 watts is plenty enough to make a difference overall, as a loaded tourer or audaxer the consideration is different obviously.

Basically for short commutes/utility riding (with 2 hours night riding or less) a battery based light is the most flexible, inexpensive option that gives you multiple options and are easy to use/set up. If you're riding at night for long periods every week or through the night riding touring, audax or a very long night commute and possibly away from an electricity source then a dynamo is the more sensible option.
Don't be fooled by the naysayers that battery lights are no good, there are obvious pros and cons for both options, running a battery light set for commuting/utility is the best option with regard to flexibility of use, choice and cost in my opinion.
diapason0
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Re: Commuting lights

Post by diapason0 »

I remember them well - had them for many years along with bottle dynamos and a Sturmey Archer dynohub. Delighted with my present Schmidt dynohub and IQ lamp. Am planning to get a SON rear light very soon.
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mjr
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Re: Commuting lights

Post by mjr »

The following are not currently true in the majority of cases in my experience:
Tonyf33 wrote:Many of the good modern battery light systems have proper beam patterns, [...]
All modern battery light can be switched on and off with multiple settings at the press of a finger [...]
Have run times long enough for 99.99% of commuters/utility and touring types. [...]
Modern battery lights don't fail at speed or after suffering multiple shocks or bumps or from intense wet/cold over long periods of time and ARE reliable
Can be swapped between any bike you have within seconds without getting your hands dirty.
Do not slip

It's very hard to get a proper beam pattern light, most switches are still awful and bump-prone, the run times are barely long enough unless you recharge daily; and the brand-specific proprietary mounts are for silly places like handlebars and seatposts, slip easily and take an annoying amount of time to move between bikes.

Really, the main things in their favour are initial purchase cost and that annoying amount of time to move them between bikes is still less than it takes to remove/refit a dynamo set. The costs of a good hub is not so high and the drag while off is negligible.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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