Cycling opportunity Keswick -Kendal

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david7591
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Re: Cycling opportunity Keswick -Kendal

Post by david7591 »

Is it not the case that the A591 on the eastern side of Thirlmere is closed to all, due to the fact it is unstable and dangerous in places, and authorities will require access to rebuild? But also the case that the minor road on the western side of Thirlmere is open to pedestrians, cyclists and a park and ride bus service, but closed to other motorised traffic on the grounds that it is narrow and could not cope with the volume of traffic potentially diverted from the A591?

I also believe there is a lot of debris on the A591 from rocks and boulders swept down the hillside, and could well be unpassable to the cyclist until cleared, regardless of whether it is officially closed.

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Pete Owens
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Re: Cycling opportunity Keswick -Kendal

Post by Pete Owens »

david7591 wrote:Is it not the case that the A591 on the eastern side of Thirlmere is closed to all, due to the fact it is unstable and dangerous in places, and authorities will require access to rebuild? But also the case that the minor road on the western side of Thirlmere is open to pedestrians, cyclists and a park and ride bus service, but closed to other motorised traffic on the grounds that it is narrow and could not cope with the volume of traffic potentially diverted from the A591?

But there wouldn't be much traffic potentially diverted from the A591 because they still wouldn't be able to get over Dunmail Raise.

About 5 years ago an orienteering event near Thirlmere had to be cancelled due to the field that was to be used for parking being flooded. The organisers asked to use the road on the western side of the lake for linear parking (with a one-way system), but were refused on the grounds that that was the diversion route for the A591 and had to be kept clear at all times just in cast the A road happened to be closed on that particular day.
Tangled Metal
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Re: Cycling opportunity Keswick -Kendal

Post by Tangled Metal »

Apparently that section of road has 5000 to 7000 journeys along it each day. The western road around Thirlmere is narrow such that it is not wide enough to mark the centreline of the road, the lanes would not be wide enough to meet regulations. This and the road is not designed to take this level of traffic makes it closed to all motor vehicles except any bus service. It is also because you'd struggle to pass a bus on it.

The main road on the eastern side of Thirlmere is cut at the section washed away by a river/stream. The section shown in photos and news broadcasts. This is relatively easy to reinstate. The main issue is alongside Thirlmere. The hillside is unstable as hinted at in one of the links when they mentioned further landslides late December. Basically even if you could cycle it, would you really want to in the rain with the high risk of getting caught in a landslide.

If you want to ride it then if not now you should be able to.soon. It is the path past the washed away bit which is at the Dunmail Raise end just at the bottom of the pass that needs to be opened for general public not escorted school kids. Once that is open you could ride down then turn left just past this bit down the western lake road. That road has always been a good road for cycling even with the odd maniac driver who.thinks they're on a special rally stage without oncoming.traffic. Once at the other end you rejoin the A591 but the hills have opened out a bit so no landslide risk. Then later on a bit you can always turn off into st John's in the vale road. Another nice road.

Basically my advise, having years of knowledge of the road, is to wait for confirmation you can get past the washed away bit. Then avoid the A591 completely but use the western road. This is based on having walked it numerous times on the Keswick to Barrow charity, challenge walk. Also driven it many times. I can picture pretty much all of it in my mind. I'd love to be able to play this mental memory/video against the current situation but I'll wait until they've stabilized the hillside.

It's not a case of being irresponsible riding it, but a case of just plain not safe to do do, from what I've heard. Ymmv is irrelevant, they've definitely closed the A591 completely for a very valid reason.
Bicycler
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Re: Cycling opportunity Keswick -Kendal

Post by Bicycler »

I take it the Kirkstone Pass is okay? If so it must be taking an unusually high level of traffic (along with The Struggle).
Tangled Metal
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Re: Cycling opportunity Keswick -Kendal

Post by Tangled Metal »

Every year the Keswick to Barrow challenge walk starts just north of Thirlmere. They close the western road to traffic for that but it is a major event. Thousands take part for charity and it dates back to IIRC post WWII Roosevelt comment about every American should be able to walk 50 miles a day. A few years later Americans advising on the building of nuclear submarine design and manufacture at Vickers in Barrow challenged their British colleagues to a walk from Keswick by the Moot Hall to Barrow, a distance of 50 miles. Since then various teams walk it but only the last 40 miles of it was you get army, navy, even airforce teams doing it in competition with BAe systems teams for their own challenge cup. The first time I did it the fastest person completed it in 4 hours then went on to race in a Lakes fell race over marathon distance IIRC. His time broke the previous record and even second place beat the previous too I think. Impressive!
Flinders
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Re: Cycling opportunity Keswick -Kendal

Post by Flinders »

Seems like until the bit south of Thirlmere is open to the public at least to walk, only the schoolkids will be able to use it. That seems a bit stupid to me. If kids can walk it, why not any pedestrian? And if anyone can walk it, why can't a bike be pushed? (I can see why they wouldn't want people riding a bike on it, as it is too narrow and steep to be safe for both bikes and pedestrians and the surface looks slippy in the photos - like some kind of metal sheeting).
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RickH
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Re: Cycling opportunity Keswick -Kendal

Post by RickH »

Flinders wrote:Seems like until the bit south of Thirlmere is open to the public at least to walk, only the schoolkids will be able to use it. That seems a bit stupid to me. If kids can walk it, why not any pedestrian? And if anyone can walk it, why can't a bike be pushed? (I can see why they wouldn't want people riding a bike on it, as it is too narrow and steep to be safe for both bikes and pedestrians and the surface looks slippy in the photos - like some kind of metal sheeting).

Probably because the school kids are only doing it twice a day & are under continual supervision. It was on the North-West Tonight news last night that people had been trying to walk/cycle - the basic message was Don't (they said it was illegal as the road was officially closed but I don't know any specifics)!

Things may improve when they've upgraded the adjacent forestry road so the minibus can drive all the way through, supposed to be by end of Feb, Pedestrians & Cyclists may be allowed to use that (but I've no information to that effect).

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Flinders
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Re: Cycling opportunity Keswick -Kendal

Post by Flinders »

They are now saying there is no access at all to the public.
Pity they didn't say so in the first place.
I still can't see how it can be safe for children but unsafe for the public. Walkers up there are 'allowed' to do Striding Edge 'unsupervised', for heavens' sake.

(Mind you, given two encounters I had with the Cumbria Tourist Board during Foot and Mouth* I do wonder whether the authorities there really want tourists.)

*, one on the phone when I asked very politely where the public were allowed to go (i.e., could we walk on the roads, what precautions should we take about washing/cleaning boots, etc,) because we didn't want to let our usual B&B down by not going (the woman on the phone was very rude) and another at a nearly empty TIC when up there when I saw a member of staff being incredibly rude to a foreign tourist who was just asking (again, politely) what attractions he could visit. I was gobsmacked.
TonyR
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Re: Cycling opportunity Keswick -Kendal

Post by TonyR »

The road is definitely closed to all and the BBC report was wrong in indicating otherwise:

http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/ ... y_council/
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Graham
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Re: Cycling opportunity Keswick -Kendal

Post by Graham »

A "Road Closed" sign really does mean it these days.

Back in the 20th century a Road Closed sign would bring a smile to my face because it could safely interpreted as "Closed to motor vehicles . . but there is nearly always a way through for pedestrians & cyclists".

If work was in progress the workmen would sympathetically respond to enable safe passage. No big deal.

Having been through a few "learning experiences" I now understand that it really means what it say - for all road users.

Fencing-off is extensive and robust.
The closure points may be guarded.
Even if a workman takes pity and thinks you might get through ( which is unlikely as their briefings are emphatic ). The Foreman / Site Safety person will very likely intervene and keep you out / send you back.

Under these circumstances it doesn't do our group image any good to push through and get caught. ( As in the web newspaper article above. )
TonyR
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Re: Cycling opportunity Keswick -Kendal

Post by TonyR »

Graham wrote:A "Road Closed" sign really does mean it these days.

Back in the 20th century a Road Closed sign would bring a smile to my face because it could safely interpreted as "Closed to motor vehicles . . but there is nearly always a way through for pedestrians & cyclists".

If work was in progress the workmen would sympathetically respond to enable safe passage. No big deal.

Having been through a few "learning experiences" I now understand that it really means what it say - for all road users.

Fencing-off is comprehensive and robust.
The closure points may be guarded.
Even if a workman takes pity and thinks you might get through ( which is unlikely as their briefings are emphatic ). The Foreman / Site Safety person will very likely intervene and keep you out / send you back.

Under these circumstances it doesn't do our group image any good to push through and get caught. ( As in the web newspaper article above. )


That's not my experience. I've often explored when there has been a road closed sign especially if it means a long detour and usually there is at least pedestrian access and in the rare occasions there isn't I have been helpfully escorted through the work while the diggers etc take a short pause. But I would never, as seems to have been happening here, remove barriers or ignore the requests of workers - I always approach them or any police first to politely ask if its OK and passable on bike or foot.
Edwards
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Re: Cycling opportunity Keswick -Kendal

Post by Edwards »

I once ignored some road closed signs, I rode down a nice hill with no other vehicles.

When I got to the bottom I found diggers and other stuff but no bridge. It was a long way back up with a bike loaded with camping gear.
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TonyR
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Re: Cycling opportunity Keswick -Kendal

Post by TonyR »

Edwards wrote:I once ignored some road closed signs, I rode down a nice hill with no other vehicles.

When I got to the bottom I found diggers and other stuff but no bridge. It was a long way back up with a bike loaded with camping gear.


I had the same but a workman walked me through across their temporary bridge to allow them to access both sides of the river.

But more generally does anyone know of a map with all the closed roads in the Lakes for route planning purposes. I know Thirlmere is off limits for now and Pooley Bridge will be for some time to come by the looks of it. But where else is also out? I'd rather go and support the local businesses than stay away
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mjr
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Re: Cycling opportunity Keswick -Kendal

Post by mjr »

Closed roads are shown on www.roadworks.org for most councils and Highways England.
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gaz
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Re: Cycling opportunity Keswick -Kendal

Post by gaz »

TonyR wrote:... more generally does anyone know of a map with all the closed roads in the Lakes for route planning purposes. ...

List here with a linked map towards the top of the page. Map requires MS Silverlight, I haven't viewed it myself.
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