Booby Trap Warning: Tiptree, Essex

[Tonyf33]

We are dealing with a sliding scale here. A driver not seeing a cyclist or pedestrian in the road is a lot less understandable than the same driver not seeing a rock or a metal bar. The same human frailty that allows a cyclist to mistake a pothole (to be avoided) for a mere patch in the tarmac (to be ridden over) comes into play. You don't have to be the kind of driver who would race around a bend and into the back of a tractor to mistake a lump of concrete for a blemish in the road surface. Its raised nature might be unclear in poor light, especially on a road with lots of patches. And you would damage your car at 20mph or less. What I am saying is that a normally cautious driver travelling at modest speed and trying to comply with the Highway Code might easily misread debris on the road. At night, in the rain, even at low speed it could easily happen.

I think the discussion has moved on slightly to discussing that drivers are forgiven for almost anything to cover up their bad driving habits,killing cyclists by not slowing down where apropriate, being one of those.
That being the case what chance have they of see a lump of concrete,barbed wire or other obstruction in the way?
They don't expect it so it does exist.

[Tongue in cheek mode on] Should we be putting more concrete, barbed wire and other debris on more roads/blind bends etc to possibly change the culture, making drivers think more about slowing down to a speed that you can see these objects, might that aid cyclists in the long run? [Tongue in cheek mode off]

[pwa]

My wife ran over a rock at about 20mph whilst driving down a lane with no real bends to slow down for and no pedestrians or cyclists around. The rock was on a bit of road where the tarmac was much repaired and it merged with the background. She failed to see it, ran over it with one wheel and damaged the wheel. No great disaster, but it demonstrates to me that a small human error whilst driving in an otherwise benign manner can result in a car being damaged by an object left in the road. I realise that any human failing on the part of a driver will be seized upon by some who like to portray all motorists as the Devil Incarnate, but I think that is plain daft. To equate a motorist who fails to spot a brick in the road with one who fails to see a cyclist is bonkers.

I am amused to find that few here seem worried that these objects in the road might be a hazard for cyclists using these roads at night. Or do they deserve what they get for inattention too?

[reohn2]

......... to portray all motorists as the Devil Incarnate, but I think that is plain daft. To equate a motorist who fails to spot a brick in the road with one who fails to see a cyclist is bonkers.

I agree,but that's not what's being said,by me at least.
OTOH police and others are making excuses for drivers not being able to stop for much larger amounts of debris ( in the video not on much of a bend )in the road than a brick or a camouflaged rock the same colour as the tarmac.

I am amused to find that few here seem worried that these objects in the road might be a hazard for cyclists using these roads at night. Or do they deserve what they get for inattention too?

Due to the slower nature of cycling,but with similar sightlines,there's less chance of a cyclists not being able to stop for such hazards.

What is happening IMO is that drivers are not ready to stop,for whatever reason,tiredness,inattentiveness,not expecting to see debris,driving too fast for conditions,familiarity with an uninterrupted journey,etc,etc.
One thing's for sure the debris in the video link was sizeable,and not camouflaged,even in the B&W video.
I do take your point about small random items in the road,but it by no means explains the whole story.

As I mentioned up thread IMO there's and element of familiarity breeding contempt,as many people are just not prepared for anything out of the ordinary or expect nothing to go wrong.

Story alert:-
About three years ago out for a ride,on approaching a T junction to join an main road I saw a Range Rover pass the end of the junction (I was around 100m from it)
As I got to the T,I heard a loud bang and a scrape from up the road in the direction the RR had been travelling.
I knew instinctively there'd been a crash and headed toward it.It was immediately obvious an Astra had taken a left hand bend in the direction it was travelling in,lost control,careered across the road and hit the RR head on,bounced off it and was now embedded in the hedge nose first in a ditch.
The RR driver was an old chap still in shock and festooned in airbags.
I attended to him first,he was all but unhurt(looked like a broken finger),not so fortunate the young lady in the Astra.
I ruined a good pair of overshoes getting through brambles to her still in the driving seat,conscious and moaning(a good sign).I reassured her and did my best to keep her comfortable as I phoned 999.
She was pretty beat up.
The police were there within 15 minutes.
The old chap out of the RR later confirmed my suspicions,that the Astra driver was going waayyy too fast for the bend,lost it hitting the front of his car with her nearside corner.
Other cars arrived and stopped.
Here's the rub.
No less than three of those drivers complained how dangerous that road was .
I had to tell all three that it wasn't the road that was dangerous.
One of those drivers complaining about the road,recognised the Astra as belonging to a friend of hers and explained how they were both locals and on their way back from horseriding.
She couldn't understand as her friend drove that road daily.
No rocks or debris of any kind were present,just IMHO bad driving on a familiar road.

[gaz]

The HC says:
146: Be prepared for unexpected or difficult situations, for example, the road being blocked beyond a blind bend. Be prepared to adjust your speed as a precaution.

[youtube]5TqLGiGADN4[/youtube]
... sometimes the unexpected happens.

[AlaninWales]

The HC says:
146: Be prepared for unexpected or difficult situations, for example, the road being blocked beyond a blind bend. Be prepared to adjust your speed as a precaution.

[youtube]5TqLGiGADN4[/youtube]
... sometimes the unexpected happens.

Good stop! I was looking in the right place, but the debris was sent towards the camera car, in those conditions an excellent stop.


@reohn2: +1

[[XAP]Bob]

One of those occasions where it looks like everyone did the right thing?

Going back in time (one advantage of video) the tree looks angled but static for a while before it falls (quite rapidly, it didn't appear to have much of a 'gentle start')

The oncoming car brakes hard, but stays in lane, the POV car also brakes and stays in lane.

[reohn2]

One of those occasions where it looks like everyone did the right thing?

Going back in time (one advantage of video) the tree looks angled but static for a while before it falls (quite rapidly, it didn't appear to have much of a 'gentle start')

The oncoming car brakes hard, but stays in lane, the POV car also brakes and stays in lane.

The car that hit the tree didn't stand a chance,in fact he was lucky it didn't hit the bonnet or worse still the w/screen.
Camera car did the right ES and so did the car behind it.
I suspect no one was injured,thankfully.

[Tonyf33]

My wife ran over a rock at about 20mph whilst driving down a lane with no real bends to slow down for and no pedestrians or cyclists around. The rock was on a bit of road where the tarmac was much repaired and it merged with the background. She failed to see it, ran over it with one wheel and damaged the wheel. No great disaster, but it demonstrates to me that a small human error whilst driving in an otherwise benign manner can result in a car being damaged by an object left in the road. I realise that any human failing on the part of a driver will be seized upon by some who like to portray all motorists as the Devil Incarnate, but I think that is plain daft. To equate a motorist who fails to spot a brick in the road with one who fails to see a cyclist is bonkers.

I am amused to find that few here seem worried that these objects in the road might be a hazard for cyclists using these roads at night. Or do they deserve what they get for inattention too?

I'll keep on driving the way I do and keep on avoiding stuff in the road, the most taxing was a baby deer standing slap bang in the middle of the lane barely over the crest of a hill just before twilight.
Drivers whom can't see things large enough that you can't just drive over them (without damage) or be able to stop in time in my honest opinion are either not observant enough, need their eyesight correcting or are going too fast, it's as simple as that to be honest. The same applies to cyclists, head down noddies come a cropper all the time, people on bikes riding beyond their capabilities and level of attention then blame everything else. Sure there are situations you will struggle to avoid that spring out of nowhere as per the tree in the above video but for those that crash into stuff whether that be large debris, a brick or a road user in whatever guise I've no time for or sympathy for them. This is a prime example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV9_i9MEnMg

[Flinders]

Here's the rub.
No less than three of those drivers complained how dangerous that road was .
I had to tell all three that it wasn't the road that was dangerous.
One of those drivers complaining about the road,recognised the Astra as belonging to a friend of hers and explained how they were both locals and on their way back from horseriding.
She couldn't understand as her friend drove that road daily.
No rocks or debris of any kind were present,just IMHO bad driving on a familiar road.

For me the real rub was that the woman was a horse rider as well as a local. Horse riders ought to have the sense to be driving more safely than average, as they ought to know how important it is for drivers to anticipate hazards like poor surfaces and, say, a loose or ridden horse on the other side of round a blind bend. They especially ought to know that road surfaces can change to more slippery ones in a twinkling- riding on tarmac teaches you that, as iron horse shoes slip far more easily on oily, greasy, or even just worn tarmac than car tyres. I've had to deal with someone who ended up between her horse and the tarmac due to it just spooking and then slipping- luckily the road was straight and I was able to sit by her and protect her until the ambulance arrived - of course she couldn't be moved (cracked pelvis, so just as well we knew enough not to try to move her). The fact that I cycle and ride as well as walk makes me a safer driver, I know that much; it makes you (or should make you) even more aware of road hazards.

[reohn2]

......For me the real rub was that the woman was a horse rider as well as a local.......

Which was part of my point,the others being loonie drivers and the blaming of the road for the 'accident'.
It seems increasingly(?)people blame anyone but themselves for what happens on UK roads,if it isn't someone for simply and legally being there,then it's the road itself!
A puzzling case of self-denial and responsibility,made even worse when such a view is reinforced by the authorities such as the police.

[Vorpal]

I don't think it's particularly strange. That's one of the reasons some of the road safety charities discourage the use of the word 'accident'. It implies that it was just a freak occurrence, rather than someone's fault.

It goes along with that most drivers think they are better than average, and many, many people believe that they are 'skilled' and this somehow makes them safe. That they have never before had an accident is proof that are good drivers.

It also goes along with people forgetting that driving is a priviledge rather than right.

[Manc33]

They go to the trouble of carrying concrete blocks around just to put it in the road?

[pwa]

Like most here I cycle and drive and try to avoid accidents. In particular, I drive and cycle at a speed that I calculate gives me time to stop if something happens. But I am not perfect in this. None of us are. And I would be very unhappy if someone was dumping debris on my local roads to test me. I think we ought to condemn whoever is doing that, even though we think some drivers go too fast.

[reohn2]

Like most here I cycle and drive and try to avoid accidents. In particular, I drive and cycle at a speed that I calculate gives me time to stop if something happens. But I am not perfect in this. None of us are. And I would be very unhappy if someone was dumping debris on my local roads to test me. I think we ought to condemn whoever is doing that, even though we think some drivers go too fast.

+1 without doubt.