First Really Close Pass Last Night - Wife a bit shook up

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Merry_Wanderer
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Joined: 31 Aug 2012, 9:33am
Location: North Leicestershire

Re: First Really Close Pass Last Night - Wife a bit shook up

Post by Merry_Wanderer »

When I cycle with Mrs M-W (who isn't a confident cyclist) I always let her lead and dictate the speed. I consciously ride at more than a metre out from the kerb and with my front wheel alongside her rear wheel but not to close. This shows motorists behind that there are 2 cyclists. It isn't foolproof or a criticism of the OP in any way. We have learnt to be assertive in terms of road position after a series of close passes. The book 'Cyclecraft' has some very good tips.
GrumpyCyclist
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Joined: 7 Jul 2015, 9:05pm
Location: Bolton, UK

Re: First Really Close Pass Last Night - Wife a bit shook up

Post by GrumpyCyclist »

Merry_Wanderer wrote:When I cycle with Mrs M-W (who isn't a confident cyclist) I always let her lead and dictate the speed. I consciously ride at more than a metre out from the kerb and with my front wheel alongside her rear wheel but not to close. This shows motorists behind that there are 2 cyclists. It isn't foolproof or a criticism of the OP in any way. We have learnt to be assertive in terms of road position after a series of close passes. The book 'Cyclecraft' has some very good tips.

Indeed that is what I try to do, but see my earlier comment about her habit of suddenly stopping pedalling. I occasionally need to back off a bit until she's up to speed again. This happened during one of the times I'd backed off. As you say, nothing is foolproof. However, as I also say the two previous cars saw both of us just fine and gave us loads of room so visibility of the front rider can't have been that bad.

TheMHP wrote:Sure this is different for everyone but whenever I'm out cycling with my good lady I have to constantly tell her to move into primary. Part of it is lack of confidence, for some reason new cyclists seem to think they are safer the closer they are to the pavement. In that situation I always make sure I'm close to her and riding in primary myself. When I'm teaching skills to a group I make sure the back marker is in primary to ensure drivers have to pull out to overtake ie if we're passing obstacles, a parked car etc I don't want drivers trying to squeeze passed. When I'm riding alone I stick to primary unless it's causing an actual obstruction to the free flow of traffic, other than that I'm staying put as my safety trumps the drivers schedule. Positioning and situational awareness can't be emphasised enough.

I'm thinking of recording myself on loop and have it playing from a speaker on her handlebars "move out a bit, don't trap yourself against the kerb" or "don't be bullied into the roadside" or the more frequent one "stop weaving in and out as you pass each parked car, stay out". As you say, I think it's confidence. If I could get her to go on a course without knocking her confidence more by suggesting she needs it I would. It's bit like an intervention: only of use if the person accepts they have a problem.

I know I'm not perfect and I find it easier when out on my own to be more dominant position wise. It's too easy when following someone, especially closely, to find yourself following them into the wrong position at times too.
Weight 8th July 2015 111.9Kg : Weight now 93.8Kg. Mostly due to cycling. Wish I'd started much sooner :( #LoveTheBike
old_windbag
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Joined: 19 Feb 2015, 3:55pm

Re: First Really Close Pass Last Night - Wife a bit shook up

Post by old_windbag »

I think from my own experience of HGV's when on a bike I feel the percentage of good, considerate HGV drivers to bad ones is much higher than the similar ratio with car drivers( though it doesn't matter a jot if you get hit by a bad one :) ). I think in most part the level of driving and responsibility for hgv/psv is a few levels up from car drivers. Even though car drivers still have have the same responsibility to safety of all those other road users they somehow seem to inhabit a blinkered world all too often, concentrating on other distractions in their life such as incoming texts or sqwawky kids. Also their spatial awareness seems missing at times when they drive towards you at 30-40mph and think you can ride safely in a 1 ft gap( narrow country lanes ).
On narrow country lanes at harvest time I am very wary of the huge tractor-trailer combo's and caterpillar tracked harvesters. These things seem to be getting bigger year on year or I'm shrinking. They don't half shift too.
Tizme
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Joined: 10 Apr 2012, 12:41pm

Re: First Really Close Pass Last Night - Wife a bit shook up

Post by Tizme »

I cannot believe people are making excuses for the appalling driving. The OPs' wife is wearing plenty of hi-viz and is well lit. The driver of the car did not suddenly come across the two cyclists, at some point he/she must have noticed two sets of hi-viz/lights but either through poor driving skills or stupidity chose to overtake the first bike and then move back in too soon. I, my wife, son/daughter, friends, neighbours or any one else, should be able to cycle along a road without the fear, either real or imagined, that a collision is likely to occur. A driver has the legal and moral obligation to proceed in a manner that will not endanger life,that to me is the bottom line.
73Chaz
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Joined: 17 Aug 2015, 8:24pm

Re: First Really Close Pass Last Night - Wife a bit shook up

Post by 73Chaz »

I was thinking exactly the same thing as Tizme.

Whilst it is likely that that the OPs road position may have partially obscured the driver's line of sight of the rider in front, at some point, that seems to me to be one of the less relevant issues.
Last edited by 73Chaz on 1 Dec 2015, 9:14pm, edited 1 time in total.
beardy
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Re: First Really Close Pass Last Night - Wife a bit shook up

Post by beardy »

I dont see anybody making excuses for poor driving. I do see people criticising it and suggesting how to protect yourself, best that you can, from that poor driving.
73Chaz
Posts: 66
Joined: 17 Aug 2015, 8:24pm

Re: First Really Close Pass Last Night - Wife a bit shook up

Post by 73Chaz »

Fair point. It's just that suggesting one rider obscured the driver's view of the other could be construed as implying that was the reason for the incident.

The driver is typically moving faster than the cyclists so the line of sight will be changing. A driver who is paying attention will have plenty of opportunity to see that there are two cyclists.
Vorpal
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Re: First Really Close Pass Last Night - Wife a bit shook up

Post by Vorpal »

73Chaz wrote:Fair point. It's just that suggesting one rider obscured the driver's view of the other could be construed as implying that was the reason for the incident.

The driver is typically moving faster than the cyclists so the line of sight will be changing. A driver who is paying attention will have plenty of opportunity to see that there are two cyclists.

I don't believe that I implied that their position was a reason for the incident. I certainly didn't mean to.

Unfortunately, a minority of drivers don't know how to overtake cyclists correctly. I think they don't realise how scary it is to have a car so close. And, as meic says above, they treat us as stationary. I think it's worse than that. They treat us as stationary objects, rather than people.

That said, I ride quite a bit with other cyclists, including my children with whom I ride in a protective position. Even though, as you say, the drivers view point is changing, some positions seem to be worse than others for close overtakes. I see that when I ride in the position that GrumpyCyclist seems to be, the cyclist in front of me has more close passes. I suspect that it is due to the drivers' line of sight being blocked when they are looking at us.

Drivers don't spot a cyclists and watch them the whole time. They spot a cyclist and look elsewhere because they need to prepare for an overtake.

I am by no means suggest that GC and his wife *caused* the incident. Only that they can reduce the likelhood of close overtakes by adopting a different position.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
GrumpyCyclist
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Joined: 7 Jul 2015, 9:05pm
Location: Bolton, UK

Re: First Really Close Pass Last Night - Wife a bit shook up

Post by GrumpyCyclist »

I'm starting to think I should have just linked to the video rather than trying to get the file down to the 256Kb attachment limit (we're not all Mick F!!) :D :D . Maybe the cropping of the image is distorting a few things. Here's a shot cropped only for width and resized to get under the 256Kb limit of the car immediately prior (perfect pass in my mind), then the one in question. Same stretch of road just a couple of hundred yards or so further along. Yes, my wife had wandered towards the kerb slightly between the two but only by a little. As you can see I was actually a little further back from her than the cropped video suggests so I guess that can be seen as either better or worse depending on point of view but she definitely wasn't obscured from view or the first car wouldn't have seen her either (You've been taking some stick on that one Vorpal, sorry :( )

Might not be an issue for the rest of Winter. Apparently she's not a big fan of getting drenched. My bad :lol: :lol:

Afterthought: shame the rucksack covers the light that is built into the back of her jacket but maybe it had ridden up bit. We've got some hi vis backpack covers coming so that might help with visibility.
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Weight 8th July 2015 111.9Kg : Weight now 93.8Kg. Mostly due to cycling. Wish I'd started much sooner :( #LoveTheBike
AlaninWales
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Joined: 26 Oct 2012, 1:47pm

Re: First Really Close Pass Last Night - Wife a bit shook up

Post by AlaninWales »

It wasn't your positioning, or hers, it was deliberately **** driving and endangerment. But you are right, a stronger position on her part will discourage this sort of thing more and even more importantly, will give her somewhere to move to, away from the idiot driver without the high probability of hitting the kerb (which would spit her off, potentially under the passing vehicles).
Velo
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Joined: 18 Oct 2007, 1:33pm

Re: First Really Close Pass Last Night - Wife a bit shook up

Post by Velo »

With the opposing lane empty it beggars belief that the driver would choose to pass both of you that close.

Riding further out can help, but not always. Lane width and traffic levels also play a role. What's more, a minority of motorists think one foot of clearance is sufficient, and there's not a whole lot you can do deter these ignorant and dangerous drivers.
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