First Really Close Pass Last Night - Wife a bit shook up

[GrumpyCyclist]

I've been sort of lucky since getting back out on the bike a few months ago, but on the way back from a ride out yesterday (we opted to go by bike instead of the car and got soaked, but hey that's half the fun) this muppet went past us. I don't hear my wife swear often but she did this time. Shame the camera at night isn't great, I could have done a YouTube name and shame like everyone else. Or maybe not

I honestly don't know if he hadn't seen her - he gave me a bit more room - or he just was in a rush but either way it shook her up a bit. If she'd been riding a bit further out like I keep saying she should be I can't help thinking he may have actually hit her not just missed.

[beardy]

If she'd been riding a bit further out like I keep saying she should be I can't help thinking he may have actually hit her not just missed.

Or he may have decided not to overtake, or to overtake properly on the other side of the road.

In my experience the close overtakes come more often if you ride further in. They just slide past as if you dont exist.

[Vorpal]

If you were behind your wife, as it seems from the video, the driver probably didn't see her; you blocked the sightline.

It's best if your wife rides further out: approximately 1 metre form the kerb.

If she absolutely won't do that, 1) get her some Bikeability lessons and 2) ride closer to her

[GrumpyCyclist]

There really wasn't any reason he/she couldn't have seen her, both of us would (should?) have been clearly visible. And I was actually almost hugging her rear wheel at times so couldn't get any closer. We probably looked like a tandem at times. For some reason she seems to have more of these than I do, even if she is further out. Behind me, in front, doesn't seem to matter. I've actually seen a white van overtake her when she was further out due to potholes etc and still do a near miss, although not that near compared to this one. I'm starting to think people are just getting more unaware of their surroundings generally. Or more likely there's more distractions in cars.

Edit to add: I think part of the problem too is that since cycle lanes (when present) are often about a foot wide then cyclists are being programmed that they should ride in the gutter and motorists get upset and impatient when they are further out than this. Cycle lanes seem to be one of those things that seem a good idea on paper but can maybe cause more problems than they solve.

[bluemootwo]

Seems you were in the driver's line of sight - you correctly out, your partner ahead and nearer the kerb. Even if you aim to change that, there will be times when this format just happens

Tandem? Never once felt vulnerable on ours.

[eileithyia]

Inclined to go with Vorpal, you were out and perhaps, until last minute, obscuring driver's view of your wife...... When i rode 'shotgun' with my son I preferred to be closer to him, ie my front wheel closer to the rear of his thigh.... so we were in a tight formation and any overtaking cars would not come in so close to him once they had completed their overtake of myself (hoping that makes sense), esp where it was a busier a road and full two abreast might be less practicable.

[Vorpal]

There really wasn't any reason he/she couldn't have seen her, both of us would (should?) have been clearly visible. And I was actually almost hugging her rear wheel at times so couldn't get any closer. We probably looked like a tandem at times. For some reason she seems to have more of these than I do, even if she is further out. Behind me, in front, doesn't seem to matter. I've actually seen a white van overtake her when she was further out due to potholes etc and still do a near miss, although not that near compared to this one. I'm starting to think people are just getting more unaware of their surroundings generally. Or more likely there's more distractions in cars.

Edit to add: I think part of the problem too is that since cycle lanes (when present) are often about a foot wide then cyclists are being programmed that they should ride in the gutter and motorists get upset and impatient when they are further out than this. Cycle lanes seem to be one of those things that seem a good idea on paper but can maybe cause more problems than they solve.

Firstly, I do really think that if you sit just outside your wife, as it appears in the video, that a driver coming up behind you will not realise that there are are two cyclists there until well into the overtaking maneuver. By then, they are probably looking elsewhere already, and may never realise that there is a second cyclist. Yes, it's poor driving, but if you and your wife want to ensure that both are seen, you need to change your positioning. If you don't believe me, get a friend to help and try some experimenting with driving up behind two cyclists using various road positions.

Cycle lanes don't help, but it's not obvious to me that there is one there. I see there's a dashed line along the side fo the road. If there isn't a bike symbol in it, it's not a cycle lanes. If it is a cycle lane, it doesn't meet standards and should be ignored, anyway.

[meic]

The front riders nearly always get the closer passes.

It fits my theory that they are subconsciously treating us as if we are stationary. So they are pulling in where they would have already passed a stationary object but we have moved into that "empty" space during the overtake.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=81889&hilit=stationary#p728741

[Flinders]

I'd agree with meic, I find that cars underestimate my speed; often they move out far enough initially, which suggests they are doing the right thing on that, but cut in too soon. I think that suggests a mis-estimate of speed. Lorries are often quite bad about it- I think once I'm in their blind spot they think I'm going slower than I am and can't see I'm not. Either that or they forget how long they are.

In this case I think it's probably a combination of that and possibly not seeing the second rider.

[Psamathe]

I'd agree with meic, I find that cars underestimate my speed; often they move out far enough initially, which suggests they are doing the right thing on that, but cut in too soon. I think that suggests a mis-estimate of speed. Lorries are often quite bad about it- I think once I'm in their blind spot they think I'm going slower than I am and can't see I'm not. Either that or they forget how long they are. :roll:
...

I also agree. You do get a few who just don't pull over far enough but most close passes are through people pulling back in too soon. And I agree that lorries seem worse - though to what extent that is because they are particularly scary (and thus memorable) I don't know.

Ian

[GrumpyCyclist]

Firstly, I do really think that if you sit just outside your wife, as it appears in the video, that a driver coming up behind you will not realise that there are are two cyclists there until well into the overtaking maneuver. By then, they are probably looking elsewhere already, and may never realise that there is a second cyclist. Yes, it's poor driving, but if you and your wife want to ensure that both are seen, you need to change your positioning. If you don't believe me, get a friend to help and try some experimenting with driving up behind two cyclists using various road positions.

Cycle lanes don't help, but it's not obvious to me that there is one there. I see there's a dashed line along the side fo the road. If there isn't a bike symbol in it, it's not a cycle lanes. If it is a cycle lane, it doesn't meet standards and should be ignored, anyway.

I agree partly with what you are saying, but space wise there wasn't that much between us and if she hadn't been there it would still have been a close pass even for me. Just so happens it was closer for her. And the 2 or 3 previous to him didn't seem to have an issue. Right out into middle of the road to pass they were.

As for the cycle lane part, I probably didn't make myself clear; my fault - there is no cycle lane there but what I meant was that cycle lanes in general are probably part of the problem asthey are encouraging / programming new(er) cyclists to ride very close to the kerb since they are usually ridiculously narrow. This in turn makes motorists expect to see cyclists closer to the kerb, and actually think that is where they belong.

Tandem? Never once felt vulnerable on ours.

Just meant we probably would have looked like one at times that's all

Inclined to go with Vorpal, you were out and perhaps, until last minute, obscuring driver's view of your wife...... When i rode 'shotgun' with my son I preferred to be closer to him, ie my front wheel closer to the rear of his thigh.... so we were in a tight formation and any overtaking cars would not come in so close to him once they had completed their overtake of myself (hoping that makes sense), esp where it was a busier a road and full two abreast might be less practicable.

Makes perfect sense, and I do try that as much as possible but she currently has a scary habit of stopping pedalling without warning and I've nearly run into the back of her a few times As I said above to Vorpal though, the cars immediately prior to this one didn't have an issue with line of sight and gave us both plenty of room.

The front riders nearly always get the closer passes.

It fits my theory that they are subconsciously treating us as if we are stationary. So they are pulling in where they would have already passed a stationary object but we have moved into that "empty" space during the overtake.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=81889&hilit=stationary#p728741

I've tried being the front rider on some busier sections but at the moment - and I'm ashamed to say it - I tend to leave her behind without realising it so end up having to take rear position and therefore usually try to protect her with my positioning as much as possible. Seems it doesn't always work.

Lorries are often quite bad about it- I think once I'm in their blind spot they think I'm going slower than I am and can't see I'm not. Either that or they forget how long they are.

I also agree. You do get a few who just don't pull over far enough but most close passes are through people pulling back in too soon. And I agree that lorries seem worse - though to what extent that is because they are particularly scary (and thus memorable) I don't know.

Ian

I think part of the problem is that lorries need to move out so far to pass a cyclist safely that waiting to have enough room on the other side of the road to move over sufficiently can probably bring on impatience. And surprisingly that isn't necessarily directed at the cyclist, they just catch the brunt of it. This can either be because the road is just too busy or oncoming drivers don't anticipate what the lorry is going to do - despite them probably indicating they're wanting to move out - and so don't make necessary adjustments on their side of the road to allow that bit of extra room. This can lead to a closer pass than would normally be attempted. Not excusing poor driving by anyone, just explaining what can often be a cause from what I see out there. And lorries don't really have blind spots if the mirrors are adjusted correctly and being used properly. Not in the way people always claim anyway. IF the lorry is going straight (which if overtaking a cyclist they really should be as much as possible) and isn't turning at the time there really is no excuse not to see the cyclist the whole time they are being passed.

[Psamathe]

...

Lorries are often quite bad about it- I think once I'm in their blind spot they think I'm going slower than I am and can't see I'm not. Either that or they forget how long they are. :roll:

I also agree. You do get a few who just don't pull over far enough but most close passes are through people pulling back in too soon. And I agree that lorries seem worse - though to what extent that is because they are particularly scary (and thus memorable) I don't know.

Ian

I think part of the problem is that lorries need to move out so far to pass a cyclist safely that waiting to have enough room on the other side of the road to move over sufficiently can probably bring on impatience. And surprisingly that isn't necessarily directed at the cyclist, they just catch the brunt of it. This can either be because the road is just too busy or oncoming drivers don't anticipate what the lorry is going to do - despite them probably indicating they're wanting to move out - and so don't make necessary adjustments on their side of the road to allow that bit of extra room. This can lead to a closer pass than would normally be attempted. Not excusing poor driving by anyone, just explaining what can often be a cause from what I see out there. And lorries don't really have blind spots if the mirrors are adjusted correctly and being used properly. Not in the way people always claim anyway. IF the lorry is going straight (which if overtaking a cyclist they really should be as much as possible) and isn't turning at the time there really is no excuse not to see the cyclist the whole time they are being passed.

The worst thing about lorries is when you get one pulling in too quickly and you nearly get taken-out as their "Cyclists stay Back" sign passes just inches from you !! It's the "Cyclists Stay Back" sign zipping across in front of you that infuriates me even more than the close pass.

Ian

[GrumpyCyclist]

The worst thing about lorries is when you get one pulling in too quickly and you nearly get taken-out as their "Cyclists stay Back" sign passes just inches from you !! It's the "Cyclists Stay Back" sign zipping across in front of you that infuriates me even more than the close pass.

Ian

LOL, fair enough. The irony is not lost on me. You could always have one on your back saying "I'll stay back if you stay forward". Honestly I don't understand the need for it. It's the same on the road when some of them move across in front of your vehicle like they're trying to take your front layer of paint with them. It's not a competition to see how close you can get. Again, I just don't understand why some are like that. The paperwork if it goes wrong is horrendous these days. But then, I don't understand why some cyclists will go up the inside of a truck at a set of lights, even if that truck is indicating left, and then sit there holding onto the side of said truck so they don't have to put their feet down. It's like they don't actually want to get home or something.

For myself, I've been known to follow a cyclist for a mile or more along a particularly windy road with parked vehicles and central pedestrian refuges where passing is not advisable. Annoys the hell out of the cars behind I can tell you. I tend to leave a few cars' distance between me and the cyclist too so they don't feel threatened just by my presence.

[TheMHP]

Sure this is different for everyone but whenever I'm out cycling with my good lady I have to constantly tell her to move into primary. Part of it is lack of confidence, for some reason new cyclists seem to think they are safer the closer they are to the pavement. In that situation I always make sure I'm close to her and riding in primary myself. When I'm teaching skills to a group I make sure the back marker is in primary to ensure drivers have to pull out to overtake ie if we're passing obstacles, a parked car etc I don't want drivers trying to squeeze passed. When I'm riding alone I stick to primary unless it's causing an actual obstruction to the free flow of traffic, other than that I'm staying put as my safety trumps the drivers schedule. Positioning and situational awareness can't be emphasised enough.

[Flinders]

The worst thing about lorries is when you get one pulling in too quickly and you nearly get taken-out as their "Cyclists stay Back" sign passes just inches from you !! It's the "Cyclists Stay Back" sign zipping across in front of you that infuriates me even more than the close pass.

Ian

LOL, fair enough. The irony is not lost on me. You could always have one on your back saying "I'll stay back if you stay forward". Honestly I don't understand the need for it. It's the same on the road when some of them move across in front of your vehicle like they're trying to take your front layer of paint with them. It's not a competition to see how close you can get. Again, I just don't understand why some are like that. The paperwork if it goes wrong is horrendous these days. But then, I don't understand why some cyclists will go up the inside of a truck at a set of lights, even if that truck is indicating left, and then sit there holding onto the side of said truck so they don't have to put their feet down. It's like they don't actually want to get home or something.

For myself, I've been known to follow a cyclist for a mile or more along a particularly windy road with parked vehicles and central pedestrian refuges where passing is not advisable. Annoys the hell out of the cars behind I can tell you. I tend to leave a few cars' distance between me and the cyclist too so they don't feel threatened just by my presence.

I always try, on narrow roads, to find a safe spot to pull the bike over to let a lorry past. They're working, I'm not. And the lorries round here are, for the most part, very good - they don't intimidate at all, and are very patient, for which I'm grateful. And always say thank you. I get mostly milk tankers, tip lorries from the local dump, and the local big haulage firm. Farm vehicles are far more variable.

I actually find lorry drivers on the motorways when I'm driving far far more scary. They tailgate me, tailgate each other, and move out with minimal signalling even when I'm alongside in order to take five minutes to pass the lorry in front as the traffic builds up behind them. I've even been harassed by them, tailgating with flashing headlights, the lot, just because I hooted to tell them I was alongside when they started to move out (If a lorry asks nicely by signalling in plenty of time as I approach, I will let them out, but I can't do that when I'm already alongside, doing 70mph, and I have some idiot tailgating me).

They didn't used to be like this, I don't know why they are doing it now.