Is it my road position?

[jatindersangha]

Hi,

There's a particular stretch of road that I occasionally use on my commute. I used to use it on a daily basis a few years ago when commuting on a full-size bike, but now I use a folding bike and only use this stretch of road occasionally.

It appears to me that cars are much more aggressive on that stretch than I remember them being previously.

I've posted 2 videos = from the same stretch of road - interesting bits are all in the first 2 mins or so:
1. An early evening one showing a car overtaking a bit close, but OK - what really scared me was the truck coming in the opposite direction! This was immediately followed by a large white van almost brushing past me when overtaking. Finally, I turned round at the sound of brakes (air brakes I think) - to find a huge truck right up my ass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmnIoInZDTE

2. A video from a few weeks ago, where a number of cars overtook very considerately - leaving plenty of space around me, then followed by a VW beeping his horn at the Skoda in front of him who presumably didn't want to overtake me. The Skoda did then overtake - and the VW tried to overtake but I knew what he was going to do and put my hand back towards him to tell him to stop - as there was a car coming in the opposite lane - he then spent 20 seconds or so shouting at me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtrDqvPybXE

I reported [2] to the police - who contacted me after viewing the video with these statements:

"Did I know how dangerous it was for a car to cross the white line in order to overtake?"
(No recognition of the fact that the road has 2 solid white lines in the centre - kind of telling cars not to overtake - I was also travelling at between 15-20 mph on that stretch anyway)

"You were too far out into the road, and should be no more than 1metre out."

"The road is 4metres wide and a car is 2metres - so if you were 1metre out, the car can overtake you without crossing the white line and still give you a metre's space."
(I measured the width of the lane - from the kerb/kerb-side white-line to the solid white line in the centre of the road - and it's 3.2m wide - which I reckon is about right as the width of the lane can be seen to be just larger than the cars in it.)

They then wrote to me saying that my road position was a contributory factor and essentially said not to bother them.

So, from the videos - is there something wrong with my road positioning? I appreciate it's not easy to tell from the video how far out into the road I am...but presumably the police managed to work something out?

Any views appreciated,
--Jatinder

[beardy]

I wonder if anybody can suggest a country that number plate can be from?
I would have said it was a British plate or meant to look like one.

I think that your replies were from a Car-centric Policeperson. Who may well not have had advanced Police Driver training and almost certainly no Cycle training.

Probably worth forwarding to the CTC so the campaigning team can have a look at it and see how to proceed, rather than trying to take it on personally between you and that particular copper.

[karlt]

I agree. The copper is clearly clueless but you have little chance of being put in a position where you can educate him.

[jatindersangha]

It must be a cliché - but the first thing the policeman said to me on the phone was "I'm a cyclist too".

Can only have said it to rub salt into the wound

--Jatinder

[Mick F]

Looking at both vids, I reckon you were riding a couple of feet wider than I would have done.

I know SLOW signs painted on the road vary a tad, but looking at where you crossed them over the O, I would have been slicing between the S and the L.

Can't comment specifically because I wasn't there and I wasn't behind you, but take my comments in the spirit I give them. I reckon you ride a couple of feet too far out.

I'm well away of standing your ground and giving yourself wiggle room and making sure people see you, but there were a couple of occasions there where you had a tail-back and you need to be aware of it. It only antagonises drivers.

Pull in and let them pass, then pull out again.

[Bmblbzzz]

I wonder if anybody can suggest a country that number plate can be from?
I would have said it was a British plate or meant to look like one.

The font used is definitely British. The format, letter letter digit digit letter letter letter, is British. And the code on the blue stripe appears to be SCO for Scotland.

[beardy]

But we have not reached 16 yet, have we?

[Bmblbzzz]

For the police comments, it's interesting to compare with this. https://beyondthekerb.wordpress.com/201 ... -boulders/ The blogger is on this forum, maybe contact him?

[Bmblbzzz]

But we have not reached 16 yet, have we?

Good point! I reckon it's still UK though, just illegally spaced; rather than IF 16 BRK it's IFI 6 BRK. Except it can't be that either, cos – I think – we don't use I in number plates. And of course the distinctive font only indicates the plate was physically made in UK, not a UK reg. So I don't know. Someone with a big, hi-res monitor could be able to make out the code though.

[foxyrider]

Think you might find its Romanian - the latest plates are almost identical to UK in layout

[661-Pete]

I agree with Mick's comment above, too much riding in primary. Without a forward view, it's difficult to be sure, but I'd suggest giving following vehicles a chance to pass now and again, avoid a queue building up. This isn't a road with a lot of parked vehicles, so you don't run the 'dooring' risk. Drop to secondary position for a few seconds. It won't hurt!

[BottomGear]

Looking at both vids, I reckon you were riding a couple of feet wider than I would have done.

I know SLOW signs painted on the road vary a tad, but looking at where you crossed them over the O, I would have been slicing between the S and the L.

Can't comment specifically because I wasn't there and I wasn't behind you, but take my comments in the spirit I give them. I reckon you ride a couple of feet too far out.

I'm well away of standing your ground and giving yourself wiggle room and making sure people see you, but there were a couple of occasions there where you had a tail-back and you need to be aware of it. It only antagonises drivers.

Pull in and let them pass, then pull out again.

I'd agree with Mick here, I would personally cycle a little further over (to the road edge) myself. I know the road is usually littered with junk and uneven drains and the like but generally I rough it out especially if there is a build up of traffic behind me. Either that or pull in to let them all pass.

[jatindersangha]

Hi all,

Thanks for the responses so far.

The road is an A-road, 40mph with many cars attempting to go over 40. That stretch is also windy with blind bends - hence the solid double white lines in the centre of the road. Once you're on that stretch there's nowhere to turn off (no pavement) - so I'd say pulling-in to allow cars to get past would make restarting the journey hazardous?

Regarding primary vs secondary, due to the narrowness of the road, surely cars will always have to cross the centre-line in order to leave a suitable gap when overtaking? My opinion is that it's the windy nature of the road and the frequency of oncoming traffic that prevents overtaking - not my position as such.

In any case, I'll try shifting to the left a bit and seeing what happens. Thankfully I only use that road once every week or two.

What do you use to judge your distance from the kerb? I try to keep about 3 drain-widths from the kerb (on the possibly flawed assumption) that a normal drain is about 30cm.

Thanks,
--Jatinder

[Bmblbzzz]

I think you're being advised to pull in, not pull over. That is, simply ride a bit closer to the kerb from time to time, when it seems best and safest to you, not stop and wait at the kerb while people pass.

[PRL]

I think you're being advised to pull in, not pull over. That is, simply ride a bit closer to the kerb from time to time, when it seems best and safest to you, not stop and wait at the kerb while people pass.

If the lane is really 3.2m wide then a 2m wide car and 1m(dynamic) wide cyclist allows just 20cm of free space somewhere. Does that really allow safe overtaking without crossing the centre line ?

The TfL CLOS evaluation tool gives an inside lane of 3.2 to 3.9m as a critical fail for that reason. ( narrower than 3.2m nobody would consider overtaking).