Is this a record?

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Postboxer
Posts: 1929
Joined: 24 Jul 2013, 5:19pm

Re: Is this a record?

Post by Postboxer »

I can't either, think he made the wrong choice of swerving in the direction the pedestrian was moving and towards the back of a bus, maybe anticipating the pedestrian to stop, maybe they lost control under braking but they don't seem to slow much. It looks to me like if the pedestrian had somehow got out of the way, the cyclist would have crashed into the back of the bus instead.
User avatar
Heltor Chasca
Posts: 3016
Joined: 30 Aug 2014, 8:18pm
Location: Near Bath & The Mendips in Somerset

Re: Is this a record?

Post by Heltor Chasca »

Postboxer wrote:I can't either, think he made the wrong choice of swerving in the direction the pedestrian was moving and towards the back of a bus, maybe anticipating the pedestrian to stop, maybe they lost control under braking but they don't seem to slow much. It looks to me like if the pedestrian had somehow got out of the way, the cyclist would have crashed into the back of the bus instead.


Maybe brain freeze. But there's possibly that momentum thing going on. Your natural instinct is to move your body AWAY from the obstruction and the bike takes a nano second longer to follow and in doing so turns TOWARDS the hazard. Maybe someone can explain it better than I can. Logic defies what actually happens.

I've had it happen a few times when MTBing in the past; once when I got doored in London; and recently when I swerved to avoid riding off the edge of a local cycle path. Doh [emoji849]
sapperadam
Posts: 87
Joined: 9 Nov 2015, 1:25pm

Re: Is this a record?

Post by sapperadam »

Seen this happen often myself though never come a cropper. Pedestrian is at fault IMO. Apart from all the other reasons that have already been posited regarding an unsafe crossing etc.

It looks to me like the car has flashed the pedestrian to cross (you can see the two flashes near the beginning of the video), so the car has a lack of awareness of other road users (and using his lights incorrectly, but that's a whole other argument), the pedestrian hasn't seen the cyclist at this point. The cyclist is moving out to move around the stationery bus, appears to me that he has seen the pedestrian and is moving a bit further out to continue behind them. The pedestrian then notices the cyclist, thinks oh, crap, hesitates, realises the cyclist is moving behind them so carries on but the cyclist has already adjusted for the hesitation so when they carry on the cyclist has nowhere left to go.

The pedestrian simply shouldn't have been there, if this had been a cyclist collides with pedestrian on a footpath, there might have been a story, as it is, this is simply a driver trying to say "look how bad cyclists are" without looking at their own behaviours.
beardy
Posts: 3382
Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: Is this a record?

Post by beardy »

The pedestrian simply shouldn't have been there,


A common enough view point but could you say why you think this and any possible things that would back it up?

In my opinion a pedestrian had every right to cross the road, even in that particular location, even in the presence of vehicular traffic. Though I am aware that many car drivers dont like me doing it.
irc
Posts: 5192
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re: Is this a record?

Post by irc »

sapperadam wrote:The pedestrian simply shouldn't have been there, if this had been a cyclist collides with pedestrian on a footpath, there might have been a story, as it is, this is simply a driver trying to say "look how bad cyclists are" without looking at their own behaviours.


Why shouldn't the ped have been there? . It's a town centre. Peds are allowed in law to cross the road anywhere. This wasn't someone running suddenly on to the road. He looked for a gap in traffic. Stopped to let the first bike past. Saw a gap before the next car giving him time to walk across. Then saw the second bike late and tried to run out of the way. Even then the cyclist could have missed him if he had been going at a reasonable speed and hadn't lost control and swerved towards the ped.

The cyclist's attitude to other road users and safety is perhaps summed up by the post crash check of his bike while ignoring his victim.

Whether or not other road users "should" be there or not does not excuse careless riding. The car driver anticipated the ped crossing and dealt with it. So what you're saying is that the ped should have spent a minute walking up to the crossing then back (plus waiting for the light to change)again but the cyclist didn't need to slow his journey by maybe 5 seconds by slowing down a bit and avoiding the crash.
Last edited by irc on 27 Nov 2015, 1:13pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Paulatic
Posts: 7804
Joined: 2 Feb 2014, 1:03pm
Location: 24 Hours from Lands End

Re: Is this a record?

Post by Paulatic »

syklist wrote:Yes the cyclist could have done something to mitigate the outcome. However, the cyclist has to be on the road whereas the pedestrian does not.


If I follow that logic through then it's the same as saying, "However the car has to be on the road whereas the cyclist does not." (If a cycle way was close by)
It's a PUBLIC HIGHWAY [emoji2] the cyclist was riding without due care and attention.
Whatever I am, wherever I am, this is me. This is my life

https://stcleve.wordpress.com/category/lejog/
E2E info
User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 10593
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Is this a record?

Post by 661-Pete »

I'd put the pedestrian and the cyclist both at fault.

The cyclist you see at the beginning, overtaking the bus safely and correctly (and signalling) sets the example. The pedestrian thinks he's reached a 'safe' zone behind the bus after his dash for freedom, but this may have momentarily disorientated the approaching cyclist who veers to the left instead of the right. Any pedestrian running across the line of traffic is bound to be disconcerting. Hence the collision.

Quite apart from the cyclist merely picking himself up and riding off, without checking the pedestrian's condition, notice the pedestrians who've just got off the bus, walking straight past him without even a glance.

0/10 to just about everyone in this little scene, I'm afraid (except the woman on the bike at the start).
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
sapperadam
Posts: 87
Joined: 9 Nov 2015, 1:25pm

Re: Is this a record?

Post by sapperadam »

irc wrote:So what you're saying is that the ped should have spent a minute walking up to the crossing then back (plus waiting for the light to change)again but the cyclist didn't need to slow his journey by maybe 5 seconds by slowing down a bit and avoiding the crash.


That's exactly what I am saying. Take that extra two minutes to avoid the collision. Isn't that what we say about cars, take that extra few seconds to avoid the collision? The law might say you can cross the road almost anywhere but would you really do so in the interests of safety. If I look at where I used to live near Ipswich, the law says I can cross the A14, but would I really? And he stopped to let the first bike past so he should have been open to the fact that there could be a second one after he passed the car.

From what I can see, regardless of whether he was riding carelessly or not, the cyclist did what he could to avoid a collision. I won't say whether he was riding too fast or not because that is purely based on personal opinions, however, I do think you can see he tries to take avoiding action which is then voided by the pedestrian hesitating. If the pedestrian had taken that extra two minutes, they would have avoided being at risk from any collision with any kind of vehicle in the first place, they would then not have been in place for the cyclist to be even be able to hit them (regardless of fault) and they would not have lost the time it takes to recover from the collision. It could have been worse as we all know, and then all of a sudden that extra two to three minutes doesn't seem that unattractive at all.

I have purposefully avoided the issue of what happened after the crash because I think that is not on at all, I've been first on scene at accidents in the past where I shouldn't have been first on scene but the car in front has just decided to try to weave their way past an accident so the behaviour here doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
beardy
Posts: 3382
Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: Is this a record?

Post by beardy »

Take that extra two minutes to avoid the collision. Isn't that what we say about cars,


Not to the extent that they should have taken a different road altogether, we are saying just taking the time to drive safely on the road that they are on.
irc
Posts: 5192
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re: Is this a record?

Post by irc »

sapperadam wrote:From what I can see, regardless of whether he was riding carelessly or not, the cyclist did what he could to avoid a collision.



Apart from seeing a pedestrian crossing the road and slowing down until it was clear he could pass safely.

Apart from understanding there was a reason the car in front was slowing.

Apart from undertaking the car when it wasn't safe. It put him into simultaneous conflict with a stopping bus and a crossing pedestrian.

Apart from losing control and swerving towards the pedestrian.

Yes, he did all he could? Actually I can't see he did anything. Can you point to anything the cyclist did to avoid the crash? The way it looks to me he only saw the ped at the last second then panicked and lost control.

A controlled undertake then immediately going to the centre line to give the ped a wide berth might have worked as well.
iviehoff
Posts: 2411
Joined: 20 Jan 2009, 4:38pm

Re: Is this a record?

Post by iviehoff »

johncarnie wrote:The Daily Wail is running 3 anti-cycling pieces today!

I find it hard to construe the first one as particularly anti-cyclist.
iviehoff
Posts: 2411
Joined: 20 Jan 2009, 4:38pm

Re: Is this a record?

Post by iviehoff »

iviehoff wrote:
johncarnie wrote:The Daily Wail is running 3 anti-cycling pieces today!

I find it hard to construe the first one as particularly anti-cyclist.

Or the second one. Clearly, being the DM, they act as a focus for various rabid comments, but the articles themselves seem fairly objective.
Post Reply