Dazzling motorists

[old_windbag]

Not sure why they do that I thought the adjusters were put in place to correct for carrying/towing a heavy load, pulling the car rear down so front point up. Another strange light issue is the number of drivers who use dipped beam and .... front driving lights, which I've always understood to be front fog lights.... for fog, hence set low to ground. Have I misunderstood the function of these for umpteen years.

[Tonyf33]

Not sure why they do that I thought the adjusters were put in place to correct for carrying/towing a heavy load, pulling the car rear down so front point up. Another strange light issue is the number of drivers who use dipped beam and .... front driving lights, which I've always understood to be front fog lights.... for fog, hence set low to ground. Have I misunderstood the function of these for umpteen years.

Full beam in fog is useless, the light bounces right back, dipped plus fogs are the best for really misty and foggy conditions, more so on twisty back roads, on major roads front fogs shouldn't be needed that much given they are straighter and usually there are other vehicles in front with their rear lamps on to see where the road goes. Obviously in a real pea-souper and being on your own you need them but for some it can be really unnerving, simple rule should be take your time, take breaks and get refocused.

As for dazzling by motorists, agree with what others have said regarding use of full beam, not needed at the speeds they should be going even on back country roads. Better lights for cars and the compulsory use of bike lights for bicycles only came about so that cars could go faster in the dark!

My personal experience of oncoming cars is that mostly they dip their lights but I simply don't look at them anyway, it might be hard to do at first because people are naturally drawn to look but it can be done and just a minor tilt of the head is all it takes to not get the full effect of the full beam.

[Redvee]

The only time I've been seriously dazzled by a motorist was coming home from work a few years back along Farm Lane in Easter Compton, approx 2 mile of pitch black cycle lane so my Magicshine headlight was on full power and a van parked up outside the church still had full beam going so I did likewise and aimed my headlight through the windscreen. It took a few seconds for the driver to find the main beam switch and me a few seconds to aim my light at the road.

https://goo.gl/maps/RA4Wk8sGuHR2

[old_windbag]

Full beam in fog is useless, the light bounces right back, dipped plus fogs are the best for really misty and foggy conditions, more so on twisty back roads, on major roads front fogs shouldn't be needed that much given they are straighter and usually there are other vehicles in front with their rear lamps on to see where the road goes. Obviously in a real pea-souper and being on your own you need them but for some it can be really unnerving, simple rule should be take your time, take breaks and get refocused.

Yes thats my point these are front fog lights yet drivers think they're supplementary lights to their dipped beam in normal driving( often youngsters in hot hatches ). I didn't mean they were using these under the conditions they are designed for. Full beam in fog is just crazy and anyone using it would soon switch off I reckon, as you say it just reflects back.

[Tonyf33]

Ah, sorry, the way I read what you'd said is that people were in fact using dipped+fog...for fog, without mentioning them being used in normal conditions.
Yes they do and yes it is an offence 'improper use of a foglight' I think it is, not that plod bother with that anymore especially with the ridiculous DRLs that all new cars have to confuse the matter
I don't even put my dipped beam on driving around town, there's no need with the streetlights we have.

[MikeF]

My lighting rig is an Exposure Strada for main beam, plus a joystick flashing for visibility and a helmet mounted small falshing light too. And a plug in for the strada at the back (which is brilliant, ultra bright an no need to separately recharge), extra flashing rear light just to be sure and a helmet mounted rear flasher.

I haven't any experience of the Exposure light, so I don't know what sort of beam output or lack of dazzle it has, but does it appear to the oncoming motorist as one those ultra dazzling cycle lights? Also the flashing lights might be "dazzling" and annoying so they keep the high beam on.

If it's a dark country road what's the point of an additional flashing light anyway? You could be a motorcyclist if you didn't have one.

The problem with lighting is that we as cyclists do not know how we appear to other road users.

[roubaixtuesday]

does it appear to the oncoming motorist as one those ultra dazzling cycle lights? Also the flashing lights might be "dazzling" and annoying so they keep the high beam on.

I used to use just the joystick on steady; I keep it on flashing out of sheer paranoia of SMIDSY - been there, done that and don't want a repeat! The Strada was added for battery life and also to have a backup. My experience with either joystick alone, strada alone or both is that *unless* they are set to dazzle, a majority of motorists leave full beam on. If they are sensibly dipped, most motorists ignore and continue on at full speed and with full beam.

On busy roads, where motorists aren't generally on full beam, I angle them down further and turn to the dimmer setting. I don't *want* to be annoying.

The problem with lighting is that we as cyclists do not know how we appear to other road users.

I think I've got a pretty good idea. The unwelcome conclusion I've come to is that unless I'm a pain in the buttock by being dazzling, motorists pay me no attention. But perhaps I'm wrong.

[mercalia]

dazzling cyclists also? a few days ago I was returning home across a bit of Streatham Common that cuts off a rather busy and dangerous road. A ufo came towards me lights pointing it seemed directly forward. And lightS I said and lightS I mean. This sorry excuse for a cyclist ( in lycra by the way - I know I 'll be jumped on for this but what the h**ll) had 3 yes 3 powerful front lights on his bars. At a distance they merged into one monstrosity of a light, I thought a car was coming down the path!

[MikeF]

Another thing that puzzles me is why do a few cyclists use blinkies and blinding lights in bright daylight on off road paths nowhere near roads. On the road I occasionally use lights in the daytime in poor light conditions especially when cars are using them, but with a "dynamo" that's easy to do.

[Malcolm Smith]

theres lights to be seen and lights to see.... thats why we have full beam and dipped headlights in cars..

[kwackers]

Another thing that puzzles me is why do a few cyclists use blinkies and blinding lights in bright daylight on off road paths nowhere near roads. On the road I occasionally use lights in the daytime in poor light conditions especially when cars are using them, but with a "dynamo" that's easy to do.

I never bother turning my lights off (dynamo), although as I mentioned above they have a proper beam pattern so there's no chance of blinding - particularly in the day.

[SA_SA_SA]

But properly dipped car headlamps have the cutoff dipped downwards by more than a degree and a bit from horizontal, so doesn't that limit the range to less than the official braking distance for 40mph (120ft)?

[MurF]

Not sure if anyone else suffer from this problem, but I see a number of motorists that fail to drop their main beam when approaching both pedestrians and cyclists (not sure about horse riders as I don't do that!). One form of technology that is now out there on street is the Main Beam Assist function of modern cars. The main beam assists uses a camera to detect the lights of oncoming vehicles. Problem is they actually have to see the vehicle before they drop from main beam.

Remember back when cars used to drip their lights before going around a blind corner? Well with main beam assists the driver never touches the light controls, but the car (should) automatically drop the lights the second it see's the on coming car. As a car driver this is very frustrating as one gets blinded even when one shouldn't.

Now take a cycle light, the LED type. These are normally dimmed by using a PWM driven system (I'm an electronic eng). This basically drops the light output by flashing the LED very fast, so fast the eye can't see it flash, but it looks dimmer. These types of light can be most problematic for Main Beam Assist as they have less chance of seeing the flash due to the way the camera operates. The camera effectively 'samples' the scene, if the LED front light is PWM'ed the oncoming car may not see the flashing light, but will instead see nothing! This is called aliasing. Therefore the car doesn't drop to dipped beam, or does it very late.

I've been trying a few different lights and can safely say the dimmer lights are picked up better than bright PWM'ed lights as the light output is constant and therefore wont Alias the camera in the on coming car. I also have a Main Beam, i.e. a second bright light such that one can get ones own back when they fail to drop there lights. (It's not that I want to, but on a 10 mile ride home on country lanes each night I get Many drivers breaking the law that the police will not uphold. Therefore to get home in a decent time one has to!)

So next time when you get blinded by a car coming around the corner or by a car not dropping there lights remember it may have been the car that didn't see you not the motorist. It's time we got this sorted out as the autonomous car is around the corner and we can't have a new form is SMIDSY! Just think, the judge saying it was the cars fault..... not the drivers!

On another note, many car manufacturers have warning to manually drop to dipped when you see a cyclist with low lighting (as if they would remember to do that!)

[Stradageek]

I have found a cheap bright light with a zoomable lens that seems to avoid dazzling motorists (I can't dip the light as it sits at the end of my recumbent boom). However I've recently noticed that the lack of a wide beam makes me prone to T-junction SMIDSY's. Hence, I'm thinking of using a supplementary flashing head torch, or a defocused main when riding in urban areas.

As for riding at speed, I've come to realise that I'll never see well enough to travel at daytime speeds so I just go a bit slower - and enjoy the starlight

[Mick F]

On a previous commuting route I was sometimes dazzled by motorists. Once or twice I tried putting my hand up to my eyes to indicate the problem - seemed to work.

That's what I used to do when commuting.

I would aim at them too by drifting out towards them "wobbling" and "blindly".
I could see where I was going of course, but they didn't know that.

It always worked!