Jumping lights. difficult to talk about.

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toomsie
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Jumping lights. difficult to talk about.

Post by toomsie »

One of my workmates was talking about how crazy cyclist jump lights and stuff, do I. I said in that in some situations it is a lot safer go through the lights especially if you turn left and give way to cars going across that junction. Cycling is one of the few things where safety and following the law are at complete odds. And all cyclist have to choose how they are going to take this.

Probably to many non cyclist. The worst dangerous cyclist always jump lights so to prove your not one of them, don't do it. Same logic could apply to car insurance overcharging me for having tinted windows on my BMW. Taking the tinted windows off will lower my premiums considerably but it will not make me a safer driver but attract more attention from thieves as I often keep goods in my car.
rfryer
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Re: Jumping lights. difficult to talk about.

Post by rfryer »

The "problem" is that many drivers think that the law is there to be followed, not something to pick and choose based on one's perception of what's safe. You can argue that most drivers do break laws at some point, but I also think that most drivers allow themselves to be constrained by laws that are serving no purpose other than to inconvenience them, for example, low speed limits at quiet times, or traffic lights at red when nobody is around.

Being frustrated at having to follow laws just because they're there, it's understandable why a motorist might censure other road users that don't play by those rules.
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Re: Jumping lights. difficult to talk about.

Post by Vorpal »

Ask him(?) if he always drives within the speed limit.
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Flinders
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Re: Jumping lights. difficult to talk about.

Post by Flinders »

rfryer wrote:The "problem" is that many drivers think that the law is there to be followed, not something to pick and choose based on one's perception of what's safe. You can argue that most drivers do break laws at some point, but I also think that most drivers allow themselves to be constrained by laws that are serving no purpose other than to inconvenience them, for example, low speed limits at quiet times, or traffic lights at red when nobody is around.

Being frustrated at having to follow laws just because they're there, it's understandable why a motorist might censure other road users that don't play by those rules.


I don't shoot lights on the bike or in the car. But I'm sure that many drivers who whine about cyclists doing it
a) do it themselves (especially on temporary lights, where almost every car that gets the red first will still go through.)
b) break speed limits
That opinion is based on how many drivers I see doing both. Add tailgating to that as well.
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squeaker
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Re: Jumping lights. difficult to talk about.

Post by squeaker »

rfryer wrote:.... but I also think that most drivers allow themselves to be constrained by laws that are serving no purpose other than to inconvenience them, for example, low speed limits at quiet times....
No purpose? Minimised traffic noise levels for a start, and just because the time is 'quiet' doesn't mean there are not some vulnerable road users around :roll:
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Bmblbzzz
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Re: Jumping lights. difficult to talk about.

Post by Bmblbzzz »

While I agree that many drivers follow laws in pointless circumstances, eg stopping at a red pelican crossing when there is no one around, this is usually accompanied by selectively following other laws – examples already in this thread, others could be lane discipline on motorways, parking, – and those laws they follow were often only introduced because too many drivers fail to use common sense when not compelled by law; so in the case of pelican crossings, drivers will not stop to let someone cross the road unless made to by a traffic light.

Also, laws often have a point which is not immediately obvious. Squeaker has pointed out the purpose of speed limits even in the absence of traffic.
eileithyia
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Re: Jumping lights. difficult to talk about.

Post by eileithyia »

squeaker wrote:
rfryer wrote:.... but I also think that most drivers allow themselves to be constrained by laws that are serving no purpose other than to inconvenience them, for example, low speed limits at quiet times....
No purpose? Minimised traffic noise levels for a start, and just because the time is 'quiet' doesn't mean there are not some vulnerable road users around :roll:



Certainly agree with that one, used to be overtaken by a speeding driver every morning i was on a particular shift through a local village...... clearly it was soooo early there was no one else around...... except the local paper boys and cycling to work midwife.....
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Rich_Clements
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Re: Jumping lights. difficult to talk about.

Post by Rich_Clements »

I get comments like that from Work colleagues, they are usually trolling for a response which they no longer get and have now got bored and moved on.
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honesty
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Re: Jumping lights. difficult to talk about.

Post by honesty »

rfryer wrote:The "problem" is that many drivers think that the law is there to be followed, not something to pick and choose based on one's perception of what's safe.
Laws are there to be followed. Not liking them or thinking you know better (eg. not stopping at a pelican red when you cant see any pedestrians as a perfect example). Tough. Follow the law. Its the same argument in the Sun (I think, I only saw the story on the Beeb when they were going through papers) this morning about Police "making money" with speed cameras. Follow the law, don't speed and they wont make money. Simples. If you don't like the law then by all means campaign to get it changed, but you cant just ignore them because you think you know better.
old_windbag
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Re: Jumping lights. difficult to talk about.

Post by old_windbag »

I've had to ( some would argue not ) go through 2 red lights recently. These were the temporary lights put up over a 150yd section of road for repair etc. The problem I had was the sensor simply not detecting my presence so I made sure it was clear as far as I could see and went through. I'm sure many have encountered this and waiting for a car to come up behind me when it was quiet wasn't really an option.
Where road users are concerned I take that as human and non-human.... foxes, deer, rabbits, badger, pheasants etc, all require at times to cross our highways and we should respect those too, we all have the right to live. Speed limits have an important role particularly where human reaction times( for all ages ) and the laws of physics come into play.
Psamathe
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Re: Jumping lights. difficult to talk about.

Post by Psamathe »

On the few occasions I have "gone through" red lights on my bike, I've been turning left and wanted to get clear of an outside car. So I got off, pushed the bike round the left tun, got back on and rode off- so I don't consider I jumped the lights.

Ian
Phil Fouracre
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Re: Jumping lights. difficult to talk about.

Post by Phil Fouracre »

Jumped red light with the missus today!! Like oldwindbag, temporary lights sensor wouldn't recognise us. Common sense, just proceed with caution, no probs! Must admit would not do it in any other circumstances, probably :-)
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: Jumping lights. difficult to talk about.

Post by [XAP]Bob »

rfryer wrote:The "problem" is that many drivers think that the law is there to be followed, not something to pick and choose based on one's perception of what's safe.

No they don't.

Speed limits, traffic lights - these are all optional.
Mobile at the wheel is perfectly fine....

Drivers want cyclists to obey laws that don't exist
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
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rfryer
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Re: Jumping lights. difficult to talk about.

Post by rfryer »

[XAP]Bob wrote:
rfryer wrote:The "problem" is that many drivers think that the law is there to be followed, not something to pick and choose based on one's perception of what's safe.

No they don't.

Speed limits, traffic lights - these are all optional.
Mobile at the wheel is perfectly fine....

Drivers want cyclists to obey laws that don't exist

So why do drivers get wound up by red light jumping? It's very easy, as a cyclist, to regard drivers as bike-hating monsters, pursuing some pointless vendetta. But as a driver myself, while I enjoy being considerate to cyclists on the road, and giving them the space that I like to be given, I still resent those cyclists that flagrantly break the road laws. And the justification, for me, is that they're cheating. As a cyclist, I'd love to be allowed to turn left at a red light for example, and if it were legal I'd also be very happy to watch other cyclists doing it whilst sat in my tin box. [In the same way that I make a point of keeping ASL boxes clear, and leaving plenty of space for cyclists to filter into them. I've no issue with cyclists being permitted to do things that I, as a motorist, am not.] But RLJ-ing isn't legal, so although I'd like to be able to do it (either on a bike or in a car), I don't - and therefore seeing others doing it is annoying. Not annoying enough to jump out of the car and confront them, or even to raise my blood pressure, but certainly sufficient for an exasperated sigh :)

Maybe it's just me, and all other cyclist-drivers are never annoyed by cyclists, and all of the non-cyclist-drivers hate us all for some other reason. But I hope that's not the case :?
Elizabethsdad
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Re: Jumping lights. difficult to talk about.

Post by Elizabethsdad »

honesty wrote:
rfryer wrote:The "problem" is that many drivers think that the law is there to be followed, not something to pick and choose based on one's perception of what's safe.
Laws are there to be followed. Not liking them or thinking you know better (eg. not stopping at a pelican red when you cant see any pedestrians as a perfect example). Tough. Follow the law. Its the same argument in the Sun (I think, I only saw the story on the Beeb when they were going through papers) this morning about Police "making money" with speed cameras. Follow the law, don't speed and they wont make money. Simples. If you don't like the law then by all means campaign to get it changed, but you cant just ignore them because you think you know better.

+1
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