Unexpected behaviour on Cycle Lanes

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Fogey
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Unexpected behaviour on Cycle Lanes

Post by Fogey »

What gives with people riding on the wrong side of cycle lanes?

It's a former railway line, converted by Sustrans and now used as a cycle lane and footpath around the centre of York, and I ride the length of it twice a day. And at least twice a week during the last couple of months I've had to take evasive action because someone coming the other way has wanted to pass on my left.

Why?
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Phil Fouracre
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Re: Probably a stupid question, but...

Post by Phil Fouracre »

Oh great, someone's got the same problem! Had it happen a few times, and am totally baffled every time. Tempted to shout abuse, but, normally ask if they're a foreign visitor, if not, what are you doing :-)
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yakdiver
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Re: Probably a stupid question, but...

Post by yakdiver »

Oh great, someone's got the same problem!

Me too
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661-Pete
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Re: Probably a stupid question, but...

Post by 661-Pete »

Perhaps the problem here is, there's no universal 'rule of the road' for cycle paths. So unless there are directional markings, it's anyone's guess.
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gaz
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Re: Probably a stupid question, but...

Post by gaz »

Phil Fouracre wrote:Had it happen a few times, and am totally baffled every time.

Last time that it happened to me I kept left and slowed to below walking pace, the approaching rider who I had assumed was on the right to pass some oncoming pedestrians and would switch back just kept coming and said "I don't know why you're doing that". I replied that I was applying the "keep left" principle, earned me a mouthful of abuse :? .
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Fogey
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Re: Probably a stupid question, but...

Post by Fogey »

The only time I've spoken to anyone about it was when I ended up stationary in front of a man on a steep corner (at the hospital end of the Foss Islands Route, if you know York.)

He asked, "Didn't you see me?"
I replied, "I did, but this being England I tried to pass you on the left."

He was clearly surprised - I don't think it had occurred to him.
Rich_Clements
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Re: Probably a stupid question, but...

Post by Rich_Clements »

661-Pete wrote:Perhaps the problem here is, there's no universal 'rule of the road' for cycle paths. So unless there are directional markings, it's anyone's guess.



That's pretty much it, I had a young lady come towards me on Monday wasn't going to shift over to her left so I just went around it wasn't until coming back a bit later I realised what she was up to, she was taking the smoothest line on the unsurfaced path.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Probably a stupid question, but...

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
661-Pete wrote:Perhaps the problem here is, there's no universal 'rule of the road' for cycle paths. So unless there are directional markings, it's anyone's guess.


Trouble maker.....................bloody common sense...................so tossing a coin (left or right) is the option of choice :?:

I am sure that in some court of law some one will plead that because its unclear / no rules they are not at fault.
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reohn2
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Re: Unexpected behaviour on Cycle Lanes

Post by reohn2 »

On a smooth towpath,I was keeping to the left closest side to the canal as it happens,when a young 'lady' coming toward me simply would not move to her left.
I stopped and said "keep left,like on the roads",I was told to "**** OFF" nice! :?
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GrumpyCyclist
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Re: Unexpected behaviour on Cycle Lanes

Post by GrumpyCyclist »

I've been having the same problems. Almost without fail, people (including other cyclists) move to their right thereby passing on my left. Now since, as already stated, we're in the UK and when driving pass on the other person's right I was starting to come to a few different conclusions:

1) most people I encounter don't drive so just stay on their preferred line regardless
2) people don't care about 'rules' (custom, practice, common sense, call it what you will) anymore and just have a "I'll do what I want attitude"
3) we are much more multicultural now, and it was only when passing a couple of these 'left side passers' and hearing them speaking that I thought maybe it's because a lot of people are now non-UK born and like it or not we are a minority in the world with this driving on the left lark. The rest of us may just be adapting to continually encountering people doing it 'wrong' and it's a new habit that's forming.
4) there's some rule I'm unaware of that passing other pedestrians / cyclists etc on anything except a road should be done opposite than when on roads.
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Pyranha
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Re: Unexpected behaviour on Cycle Lanes

Post by Pyranha »

I'm not often on cycle lanes, but recently in Perth, we (wife and I) were on a cycle path riding two abreast, and singled out to the left of the path as another rider approached, on the same side. When he reached us he swore at us for being 'on the wrong side'. Neither of us understood why the 'rule' would be different for cycle paths. Perhaps this thread suggests some people really think that one should keep right on a cycle path, but why?
Bicycler
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Re: Unexpected behaviour on Cycle Lanes

Post by Bicycler »

GrumpyCyclist wrote:4) there's some rule I'm unaware of that passing other pedestrians / cyclists etc on anything except a road should be done opposite than when on roads.

We can dismiss this one. All paths open to the public are "roads" for the purposes of the Highway Code and the Road Traffic Acts. Thus, on an unsegregated path, cyclists ought to keep left as they would on the road.

From past experience I know it is a bit more contentious on this forum to suggest that pedestrians ought to keep right - facing any oncoming cyclists - as they would on the road. Whilst I am confident that it is technically correct and it is what I consider to be safest, many cyclists do prefer pedestrians to keep to the left.

The final point I always add when this topic comes up is that these paths may not be different from tarmac roads in law, but they are in the way they are used. Also, our right to use them is often controversial. I'd argue that demanding compliance can become a massive own goal. It ultimately does us very little good if opening up paths to cyclists comes to be seen as leading to a more regimented road-like environment.
GrumpyCyclist
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Re: Unexpected behaviour on Cycle Lanes

Post by GrumpyCyclist »

Bicycler wrote:
GrumpyCyclist wrote:4) there's some rule I'm unaware of that passing other pedestrians / cyclists etc on anything except a road should be done opposite than when on roads.

We can dismiss this one. All paths open to the public are "roads" for the purposes of the Highway Code and the Road Traffic Acts. Thus, on an unsegregated path, cyclists ought to keep left as they would on the road.

From past experience I know it is a bit more contentious on this forum to suggest that pedestrians ought to keep right - facing any oncoming cyclists - as they would on the road. Whilst I am confident that it is technically correct and it is what I consider to be safest, many cyclists do prefer pedestrians to keep to the left.

The final point I always add when this topic comes up is that these paths may not be different from tarmac roads in law, but they are in the way they are used. Also, our right to use them is often controversial. I'd argue that demanding compliance can become a massive own goal. It ultimately does us very little good if opening up paths to cyclists comes to be seen as leading to a more regimented road-like environment.


I'd actually been considering a few of these points since I posted. You're right of course in that on a road, if no segregated footpath is provided then pedestrians would / should walk on the right facing oncoming traffic. This method of course could easily carry forward onto cycle paths and maybe has. Is it correct to do so? Who knows, I'd say it is technically correct but I guess what adds to the problem is that they often stretch out over the whole path width so the side they are on becomes irrelevant. In those cases I don't see why making room on their right would be problematic. But maybe we're overthinking. Then we have the other issue that unless the paths are segregated a pedestrian has the right of way on there to do pretty much as they please as is always the case. The upshot of that is that we, on cycles, are technically always in the wrong. Good thing we have the National Cycle Network so we can ride unbothered by....oh, wait. :D :D :roll:

As for other cyclists passing on the "wrong side" I am starting to think that is coming down to a combination of encountering more pedestrians using the keep right approach and a lot of cyclists from around the world who keep right because that is how they drive. Don't really know if there's any solution. I just read that apparently British Waterways once did a consultation about whether to enforce the roads 'keep left' policy. It was decided it would be unpopular and people would just ignore it anyway. And I guess since it would be essentially unenforceable (who would police it?) it would have been of little value anyway.
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Postboxer
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Re: Unexpected behaviour on Cycle Lanes

Post by Postboxer »

It could be easily encouraged though with the odd sign or path marking, just hinting that one should cycle on the left. Hopefully it wouldn't need to be policed.

Maybe it's either people who never cycle on the road, maybe cycling along narrow pavements where they never consider which side they are on, or when they do cycle on the road, wander all over wherever they want on it, or it's just people not considering that the oncoming cyclists are sticking to the cycle on the left rule, the oncoming cyclists are just trouble makers who won't shift out of THEIR way - Not considering for one second that perhaps they could move instead. Maybe they ride at other cyclists the way they drive at cyclists.
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Re: Unexpected behaviour on Cycle Lanes

Post by Bmblbzzz »

In contrast to the prevailing trend of posts here, I'm always surprised by the overwhelming tendency of cyclists to keep left on off-road cycle paths. The only ones I see not doing so are (small) children, who understandably ride wherever they want. It is probably significant that the path I most use is pretty busy (the Bristol-Bath railway path) as well as having a decent surface its whole length. Maybe the central white line some sections of it have are also a factor.

But I think it's the kids that give us a clue here. The kids are doing as kids do, and as they can't on the roads, even residential streets, nowadays. The adults are also riding on paths in order to avoid the stresses and regimentation of roads. Is it really such a problem having people pass you on either side? If you're in a hurry, use the road; if you're not, slow down and weave!
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