Commuting on the first Monday since clock change

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Nickeveson
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Commuting on the first Monday since clock change

Post by Nickeveson »

I cannot believe how different my ride home was tonight compared with last week. It's now dark on my way home, but with front and rear lights and high vis jacket I thought I was prepared. How wrong was I? Five near misses in 2 miles, by drivers who were a. In a hurry to get home and b. Not seeing my brightly lit bike and me due to street lights and other car lights distracting them.
I wonder if anyone has researched how many cyclists are hit in the week or two after clock change compared with other times of the year?
If as I suspect there is a marked increase in the first two weeks then surely an advertising campaign similar to the "Think Biker" campaign is needed.
Comments would be welcome
MikeF
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Re: Commuting on the first Monday since clock change

Post by MikeF »

Hi Vis is not the same as reflective and won't show in the dark. Does your jacket have reflective parts?
Visibility is a problem when cyclists lights have to compete with increasing LED arrays of rear lights on cars. I not sure what the answer is when cyclists haven't a dedicated highway.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
boliston
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Re: Commuting on the first Monday since clock change

Post by boliston »

I wish they would just agree on a fixed time zone and stick with it all year round - in some ways GMT+1 would make sense as 9-5 commuting would mean going to work and coming home would be similar lighting levels all year round and no sudden change - it's that sudden change I hate so much
Bicycler
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Re: Commuting on the first Monday since clock change

Post by Bicycler »

As usual our response to bad driving is to blame the conditions. Lights or not, hi-vis or not, GMT or BST - there is really no excuse for not seeing people.
Nickeveson
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Re: Commuting on the first Monday since clock change

Post by Nickeveson »

My error.....my jacket is reflective......but as another says there is no excuse for not seeing me.....it's lack of concentration, together with a myriad of other lights ie. indicators, headlights, tail lights, street lights, shop lights etc
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mjr
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Re: Commuting on the first Monday since clock change

Post by mjr »

Nickeveson wrote:I wonder if anyone has researched how many cyclists are hit in the week or two after clock change compared with other times of the year?

I don't know but it will be confounded by this effect being so notorious among cycle commuters that some vary their route to quieter roads and others switch to other modes for a while. There is also herty victimblaming from everyone. I challenged the local police online for suggesting tiny lights "will save lives" and they just started wibbling about "common sense" which is not encouraging so don't expect any help from traffic police.

Take care out there. Ride well.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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NUKe
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Re: Commuting on the first Monday since clock change

Post by NUKe »

Don't worry it will all calm down in day or two. As I reported on another thread a couple of weeks ago. The first couple of working days after the clocks change makes people irritable. despite they are travelling home at their normal time drivers feel they are late, body clocks not realigned, so they are tired hungry and grumpy and just want to get home. They drive closer together as well. BTW I have no actual evidence for this just personal observation, but I bet if you look in the accident statistics accident spike for a couple of days after the clock change.
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Ben@Forest
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Re: Commuting on the first Monday since clock change

Post by Ben@Forest »

Didn't bike in yesterday but did today and thought it was quiet - it is of course half-term which, here at least, significantly reduces traffic. So any stats would have to try and take that into account too. As the saying goes, 'Lies, dammed lies and statistics....'
SA_SA_SA
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Re: Commuting on the first Monday since clock change

Post by SA_SA_SA »

MikeF wrote:.... cyclists lights have to compete with increasing LED arrays of rear lights on cars. .....


But car lights are limited (by UN-ECE rules) to 17cd total (eg two rear lamps would be 8.5cd max each) and motorcycles are allowed 12cd for their rear lamp: so have modern cars found a loop hole? There seemed some mention of a 30cd limit for variable lamps whatever they are? :(

Or is it poor optical design (large sparse arrays of small bright dots) you mean (old diffused red lenses did seem a bit nicer and putting the red on the bulb is stupid as it increases the chance of wrong colour replacement and increases amount of spares....).

IMO steel boxed vehicles should only be allowed dim nominal rear lamps so as they have an incentive to drive within the range they can see....otherwise dents will insue in their precious.....

A pity compulsory tail lamps have destroyed the idea of driving within the range of available lighting, a pity the early CTC was unsuccessful in allowing cyclists only optional rear lamps and allowing steel boxed vehicles only nominal dim ones...
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galaxy1
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Re: Commuting on the first Monday since clock change

Post by galaxy1 »

I hate to say this and i know we shouldnt have too, but at some point do we need to say that its becoming to dangerous to comute or cycle in certain places. Need it be due to bad driving, time of the year, road conditons, or where you need to cycle.
Its something i have been thinking about.
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mjr
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Re: Commuting on the first Monday since clock change

Post by mjr »

galaxy1 wrote:I hate to say this and i know we shouldnt have too, but at some point do we need to say that its becoming to dangerous to comute or cycle in certain places. Need it be due to bad driving, time of the year, road conditons, or where you need to cycle.
Its something i have been thinking about.

No, we need to say it's too dangerous to let motorists continue to drive there as they currently do, but this is the UK, where we react to air pollution by telling people to drive motor vehicles more, so I'll be very pleasantly surprised if we do what's needed.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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iviehoff
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Re: Commuting on the first Monday since clock change

Post by iviehoff »

Nickeveson wrote:I cannot believe how different my ride home was tonight compared with last week. It's now dark on my way home, but with front and rear lights and high vis jacket I thought I was prepared. How wrong was I? Five near misses in 2 miles, by drivers who were a. In a hurry to get home and b. Not seeing my brightly lit bike and me due to street lights and other car lights distracting them.
I wonder if anyone has researched how many cyclists are hit in the week or two after clock change compared with other times of the year?
If as I suspect there is a marked increase in the first two weeks then surely an advertising campaign similar to the "Think Biker" campaign is needed.
Comments would be welcome


The most obvious effect on accidents of the clock changes is that in the spring, when the clock goes forward: there is a spike of accidents in the morning rush hour, just for a few days following the change. This has been attributed to the fact that drivers are more tired through having to get up what suddenly feels early. But after a few days they get used to it and the spike in accidents goes away.

But broadly you are right that winter time increases the rate of accidents, but not as a spike, as a general increase in rate. See http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice ... act-sheet/ Dark evenings produce more accidents than dark mornings, so it would be safer to have lighter evenings at the expense of darker mornings, in other words stick to BST all year.

Personally I hate dark mornings, and welcome the autumn clock change to reduce the experience of getting up in the dark. I would feel tired all day at this time of year. But a few years ago I got a "sunrise simulator" alarm clock, so it starts to get light in my bedroom from about 40 minutes before I get up, and I now suffer much less from dark season tiredness.

I disagree about the "confusion of other lights" effect, I don't believe it exists. I cycle in central London every day, and I have no difficulty whatsoever picking bicycles out of the many lights I can see, provided they have adequate lights. The ones I can't see very well have obviously inadequate lights, often because the battery is nearly flat, or the light is partly concealed by their clothing or luggage.

Unfortunately there was a fatal accident in central London a time back, precisely on my evening commuting route (I wasn't a witness), where a cyclist was driven over from behind by a car, despite being adequately lit. It was the evening rush hour in hours of darkness. The driver was acquitted of any offence, and the possibility of a confusing field of lights was mentioned by the defence. Unfortunately there seems to have been found no witness to the moment just before the accident itself, but there were several witnesses who saw the cyclist shortly before that, and they all said they had no difficulty whatsoever seeing the cyclist from among the other traffic and lights around when they saw him just before the accident. The defendant said she simply hadn't been aware of the cyclist until she struck him, and could not say if she had ridden him over directly from behind, or if he had suddenly changed line into her path. The lawyers for the defendant raised this possibility of a "confusing light-field" so that you couldn't pick out the cyclist, however they presented no scientific evidence to justify the truth of such an effect. As I said, I think it is absolute tosh, because it directly contradicts my own experience, and that of the other witnesses, but unfortunately the statement was not directly challenged in court, despite the lack of evidence. Of course my perception is not everyone's perception, and maybe there is a real effect that some people suffer. Research is needed to find out if it really exists. If it is a widespread issue, then maybe it can influence the design of cyclists' visibility tech to ensure that they are sufficiently obvious in such "light fields". But if it can be shown that there is a small minority of people who suffer that effect, then we should perhaps see this as a disability, and people should be tested for it before they are allowed to drive at night, because they can't be allowed to rear-end adequately lit vulnerable road users and kill them because of their own disability. I don't think that this was crucial factor in the acquittal of the defendant, I think the crucial factor is that no one could say whether the cyclist had suddenly changed line or not. (Not relevant to this discussion, I still think that is the wrong verdict - the woman admitted that she never saw a perfectly well lit cyclist she was approaching that all other witnesses saw perfectly obviously, and therefore it seems to me by definition she was not driving with due care and attention.)
Mark1978
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Re: Commuting on the first Monday since clock change

Post by Mark1978 »

Ideally we'd be able to do away with the clock changes entirely. But it's never that simple, if we stuck with BST then in the winter there are parts of the UK which wouldn't see daylight until 10am.

Sticking with GMT all year round would be an option as during the summer the likes of France and Spain, on the same latitude as us are on GMT time and they seem to manage.

The main issue I find this time of year is the likes of today, drive to work in the dark, even now at 12.20pm it's still at best 'dusk' outside, definitely not what I'd call light, then I'll be driving home in the dark. So it's like there was no daylight at all.
iviehoff
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Re: Commuting on the first Monday since clock change

Post by iviehoff »

Mark1978 wrote:Ideally we'd be able to do away with the clock changes entirely. But it's never that simple, if we stuck with BST then in the winter there are parts of the UK which wouldn't see daylight until 10am.

What's wrong with that? If it's dark until 9am now, and thus everyone has gone to school and work in the dark, it may as well be dark for another hour. The point that is being raised is that it is more valuable to have the light later in the day. I went to school in the dark in the winter even though I lived in the SE and we had clock changes. In large parts of Norway and Sweden in the winter it doesn't get light until 10am, despite a clock change. Iceland sticks to summer time all year, so it doesn't get light till near 11am in winter. Spain is on central European time, despite the fact that Madrid is west of London, and the west coast of Galicia, in the NW of Spain, is as far W as the W of Ireland. Chile and Argentina now both stick to summer time all year, and they have populations at British-type latitudes. Since in Argentina it is summer time from a Buenos Aires perspective, the west of Argentina - which includes the south, from a longitudinal perspective - is like being on double summer time all year.
iviehoff
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Re: Commuting on the first Monday since clock change

Post by iviehoff »

Mark1978 wrote:Sticking with GMT all year round would be an option as during the summer the likes of France and Spain, on the same latitude as us are on GMT time and they seem to manage.

What you said makes sense if you meant BST when you said GMT. France and Spain observe summer time, the only European countries that don't are Iceland, Russia and Belarus. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time) French summer time is GMT+2 and French winter time is GMT+1 (=BST). The observation that Brittany is on is on GMT+1 (=BST) in the winter, being as far west as Cornwall, and Galicia further south is on GMT+1 despite being as far W as W Ireland, tends to the support being on BST all year, not GMT.
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