Agressive hooting
Agressive hooting
I have been cycling for almost two years now. One thing I have noticed about drivers toward me as a cyclist vs a driver is they hoot considerably less. When I am driving in a car it seem like aggressive hooting is unavoidable to my best attempts at being a good driver. I am a carful driver, no accidents, with a tendency to forget to signal sometimes. As a cyclist I am careful and fearful also, obsessed in safety. I have no real problems from car uses other then some close passes.
Re: Agressive hooting
I never get hooted at in the car, not that I can remember anyway.
I occasionally get hooted at on the bike - although it's usually someone trying to be funny.
I occasionally get hooted at on the bike - although it's usually someone trying to be funny.
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Re: Agressive hooting
Why forget to signal occasionally, should be ingrained as part of the learning / training process.... it is not just other drivers who need to know what you are doing but all road users inc pedestrians and cyclists... nothing more annoying when i am out and about as either.
I stand and rejoice everytime I see a woman ride by on a wheel the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood. HG Wells
Re: Agressive hooting
Yeah, I never understood that. I'm driving; I'm turning; I indicate. It's a tiny flick of a finger, no hardship.
I'm confident I get more honks on the bike, though they are rare. Usually I'm just in front of somebody more important than me
I'm confident I get more honks on the bike, though they are rare. Usually I'm just in front of somebody more important than me
Re: Agressive hooting
Drivers not signalling drives me mad. It's dangerous and I don't understand why it isn't an automatic part of any action, like changing gear. Mirror, signal manoeuvre, was what I was taught.
First you look to see if it is safe, then you signal your intention, (and at this point I'd add check the mirrors and look again), then if safe, do it.
I suspect too may drivers don't bother signalling if there is no traffic and get into bad habits. I signal even if there is no car or human in sight. It's so instinctive that if on a narrow road I don't know there is a very sharp bend where it is necessary to change down to a very low gear, I have occasionally signalled automatically even if the road is 'mine'.
Failing to signal on a roundabout is the worst. I think mini roundabouts are responsible for people getting slack about signalling. But failing to signal left before you leave means that waiting traffic is slower to be sure you are turning, and so traffic waits longer, holding up traffic.
There is also the problem with drivers (and these days, for some reason, lorry drivers do this though in the past they didn't, and it's very dangerous) who regard signals as 'coming ready or not'. The driver wants to overtake on a motorway, signals right and moves out at the same time, regardless of traffic to their right, which is expected to get out of the way. Twice in the last few months I have been very nearly pushed into overtaking traffic in the right hand lane by a lorry doing this- when they signalled and started to move I was broadside on to them. One of the few times the use of the horn is necessary and legal- to let someone know you are there. It's only doing that that saved me both times.
First you look to see if it is safe, then you signal your intention, (and at this point I'd add check the mirrors and look again), then if safe, do it.
I suspect too may drivers don't bother signalling if there is no traffic and get into bad habits. I signal even if there is no car or human in sight. It's so instinctive that if on a narrow road I don't know there is a very sharp bend where it is necessary to change down to a very low gear, I have occasionally signalled automatically even if the road is 'mine'.
Failing to signal on a roundabout is the worst. I think mini roundabouts are responsible for people getting slack about signalling. But failing to signal left before you leave means that waiting traffic is slower to be sure you are turning, and so traffic waits longer, holding up traffic.
There is also the problem with drivers (and these days, for some reason, lorry drivers do this though in the past they didn't, and it's very dangerous) who regard signals as 'coming ready or not'. The driver wants to overtake on a motorway, signals right and moves out at the same time, regardless of traffic to their right, which is expected to get out of the way. Twice in the last few months I have been very nearly pushed into overtaking traffic in the right hand lane by a lorry doing this- when they signalled and started to move I was broadside on to them. One of the few times the use of the horn is necessary and legal- to let someone know you are there. It's only doing that that saved me both times.
Re: Agressive hooting
Flinders wrote:Failing to signal on a roundabout is the worst. I think mini roundabouts are responsible for people getting slack about signalling. But failing to signal left before you leave means that waiting traffic is slower to be sure you are turning, and so traffic waits longer, holding up traffic.
While the above is true, people are not meant to act solely on a signal (http://highwaycode.info/rule/170 ) and will be held partly liable if a crash results. There are tons of people around here signalling randomly, so it's best to wait until they can't easily hit you before moving off.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Re: Agressive hooting
Flinders wrote:signals right and moves out at the same time
There's a common belief amongst drivers that the indicator trumps everything.
Observe almost any discussion on someone's accident and it's surprising how often you'll hear the phrase "I was indicating" because once that light starts to flash there's no need for the driver to do anything else...
(I had the same argument with a driver who tried to turn left across my path. They'd pulled alongside (I was in a 'wide' cycle lane) and and then started to turn. Fortunately they stopped but apparently it was my fault because they'd been "indicating".)
Re: Agressive hooting
mjr wrote:Flinders wrote:Failing to signal on a roundabout is the worst. I think mini roundabouts are responsible for people getting slack about signalling. But failing to signal left before you leave means that waiting traffic is slower to be sure you are turning, and so traffic waits longer, holding up traffic.
While the above is true, people are not meant to act solely on a signal (http://highwaycode.info/rule/170 ) and will be held partly liable if a crash results. There are tons of people around here signalling randomly, so it's best to wait until they can't easily hit you before moving off.
I know what you mean, but I meant that it is 'part of the evidence'.
Even if someone is signalling left, I won't move out until their road positioning has confirmed it and they are turning (which does annoy drivers behind me who would just jump out regardless that the indicator might have been left on in error). But if they signal left, I am alerted earlier to the possibility they will turn, so I can start to prepare the car to move, even if I don't 'go' until they start to turn, and can still abort the move if they don't. That can leave me enough time before the next car comes round to get out, when otherwise I'd still have the handbrake on etc. when they began to turn and might miss the gap.
Re: Agressive hooting
Bicycler wrote:Yeah, I never understood that. I'm driving; I'm turning; I indicate. It's a tiny flick of a finger, no hardship.
Once I climbed a hill in busy traffic, 600watts balance while signalling. Was it easier then flick of a finger. Yes it was because I remembered to do so. Prehaps it shoul be habbit by now but it isn't the case ,I always forget once or 3 times a month. What can I do about it. Probably, focus on it intensely while driving, the same way I do regarding mirrors. Does moral arguments help me to remember, probably not because the first step is to remember.
Re: Agressive hooting
It wasn't a moral argument as such. I was suggesting that it is no hassle to signal so it is best to get in the habit of doing it every time you need to make a manoeuver, so it is much less likely that you will forget. Whilst there is nothing wrong with only signalling where there is someone there to benefit, I have noticed that for some people this can result in a tendency towards not indicating as much as they should.
I remember when the seat belt laws came in. Most people just started putting theirs on the moment they got in a vehicle and it soon became pretty much automatic, to the extent that you would look for them if you got in vehicles where they were not fitted or where they were stuck down the side of the seat. Several people at a large site I worked at decided that they wouldn't bother putting theirs on until they got to the public road. A couple of those people ended up forgetting completely and getting caught. A few others who did the same admitted reaching home or work and noticing they too had forgotten to put on their belts.
I remember when the seat belt laws came in. Most people just started putting theirs on the moment they got in a vehicle and it soon became pretty much automatic, to the extent that you would look for them if you got in vehicles where they were not fitted or where they were stuck down the side of the seat. Several people at a large site I worked at decided that they wouldn't bother putting theirs on until they got to the public road. A couple of those people ended up forgetting completely and getting caught. A few others who did the same admitted reaching home or work and noticing they too had forgotten to put on their belts.
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Re: Agressive hooting
toomsie wrote:Bicycler wrote:Yeah, I never understood that. I'm driving; I'm turning; I indicate. It's a tiny flick of a finger, no hardship.
Once I climbed a hill in busy traffic, 600watts balance while signalling. Was it easier then flick of a finger. Yes it was because I remembered to do so. Prehaps it shoul be habbit by now but it isn't the case ,I always forget once or 3 times a month. What can I do about it. Probably, focus on it intensely while driving, the same way I do regarding mirrors. Does moral arguments help me to remember, probably not because the first step is to remember.
What might help? Perhaps an IAM or RoSPA course which would introduce a systematic approach to your driving.
Re: Agressive hooting
Bicycler wrote: I was suggesting that it is no hassle to signal so it is best to get in the habit of doing it every time you need to make a manoeuver, so it is much less likely that you will forget. Whilst there is nothing wrong with only signalling where there is someone there to benefit, I have noticed that for some people this can result in a tendency towards not indicating as much as they should.
Signalling should not be automatic though. it should be considered and used where appropriate. For example approaching a left turn off a main road. If there was following traffic then a signal before I started slowing down would warn them that I was turning and would soon be slowing down. A good thing.
On the other hand if I signaled then started slowing down 150M from my turn and there was a car waiting to emerge from another turn 75M before my turn then that driver might assume I was taking that turn and pull out in front of me. So I would always delay a signal until I was past the last turn before I was taking if there was a car at the give way.
Re: Agressive hooting
Yep, I didn't mean to imply that the entire process of signalling became automatic, just that the need to signal when making a manoeuver becomes ingrained.
Re: Agressive hooting
Signalling is, at best, a poor indicator of where a vehicle is headed. I look at where the wheels are pointed. If I intend to cross their path, like at a roundabout, I only go (driving or cycling) when they reach the point that they are no longer likely (or easily able) to change trajectory. I don't honestly care if anyone is 'held up' by this. It's the only way I can be certain it's safe to go.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Re: Agressive hooting
I rely on indicators and leaving space for them to avoid me if they aren't indicating, so if someone's coming from across a roundabout, not indicating, I'll pull out as long as they have time to slow down should they be turning. If that makes sense.