Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with SUV

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
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NUKe
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Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by NUKe »

The lady in question threw a tantrum. and drove the car at the cyclists, If she had wanted to maim him, she could have done and probably was more intent on frightening him, lucky she didn't injure him. Yes she has anger management issue and yes she did something stupid and needs to be punished. But I hardly think removing her kids to care is measured response. Nor do I think in this case that prison is appropriate, a ban maybe and certainly needs to retrain and deal with her anger issues. There are much worse things happen everyday.
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beardy
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Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by beardy »

If she had wanted to maim him, she could have done


I think the fact that she planted her car in a building shows that she was not in precise control of the outcome of her act. With the logical assumption that she did not actually want to drive into the side of a building, we can not really think that where and how exactly she hit the cyclist was much due to careful aim.
axel_knutt
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Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by axel_knutt »

Vorpal wrote:I don't think the criminal justice system does enough to help people, as in counselling, anger management, etc.


That's because people are motivated by retribution not rehabilitation.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
beardy
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Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by beardy »

Rehabilitation is only an issue for repeating offenders, for one off offenders we need a deterrent punishment to warn others from doing similar things.
Postboxer
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Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by Postboxer »

What if she instead had shot at him and slightly injured him?
axel_knutt
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Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by axel_knutt »

beardy wrote:Rehabilitation is only an issue for repeating offenders, for one off offenders we need a deterrent punishment to warn others from doing similar things.


Any offender is a potential repeat offender if they're not rehabilitated.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
beardy
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Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by beardy »

Any offender is a potential repeat offender if they're not rehabilitated.


Any non-offender is a potential offender
Any offender is a potential repeat offender even if they are "rehabilitated".

There are crimes that are a direct result of extreme circumstances which would make a lot of people offend who would never offend without such rare circumstances.
Such as murdering somebody you caught in the act of raping your child, as an example.
Tonyf33
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Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by Tonyf33 »

Personally I think the intent to seriously harm is far more clear for the women guilty of mowing down the cyclist than the guy who killed the PC, on another day the outcome could be different & we'd be talking about how lenient a sentence a women driver got who killed a cyclist through malice. The fact she has children AND is a women WILL be taken into consideration, if not consciously, subconsciously.
I hope she gets at least 5 years, the intent was as clear as daylight, oh and she has previous, driving dangerously whilst being under the influence. :twisted:
axel_knutt
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Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by axel_knutt »

beardy wrote:Any offender is a potential repeat offender even if they are "rehabilitated".

That assumes that rehabilitation doesn't have any effect.
Rehabilitation dramatically cuts the rate of recidivism, and yet John Darley's research shows that people are motivated by retribution not rehabilitation.

There are crimes that are a direct result of extreme circumstances which would make a lot of people offend who would never offend without such rare circumstances.
Such as murdering somebody you caught in the act of raping your child, as an example.

What's the relevance of that?
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
beardy
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Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by beardy »

Rehabilitation dramatically cuts the rate of recidivism, and yet John Darley's research shows that people are motivated by retribution not rehabilitation.


To want to control your penal policies purely based on the 0.13% of the population who are in jail while ignoring the 99.8% of the population who have not committed crimes because of the deterrent effect is all too common these days.

That assumes that rehabilitation doesn't have any effect.


No it assumes that "rehabilitation" has a very limited effect and that external conditions have a much greater effect. Which was illustrated by the hypothetical case which you dont even see as relevant.
iviehoff
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Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by iviehoff »

beardy wrote:
Rehabilitation dramatically cuts the rate of recidivism, and yet John Darley's research shows that people are motivated by retribution not rehabilitation.

To want to control your penal policies purely based on the 0.13% of the population who are in jail while ignoring the 99.8% of the population who have not committed crimes because of the deterrent effect is all too common these days.
That assumes that rehabilitation doesn't have any effect.

No it assumes that "rehabilitation" has a very limited effect and that external conditions have a much greater effect. Which was illustrated by the hypothetical case which you dont even see as relevant.

When Mitt Romney was governor of Massachusetts, he decided that prison was just for retribution, and stopped bothering with rehabilitation. The effect was to cause a large increase in costs of crime, in terms of crimes committed and prison requirements for housing the increased number of prisoners. One very good reason for carrying out rehabilitation is that it is exceedingly good value for money to do it, even if it delivers only a very partial success rate.
iviehoff
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Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by iviehoff »

yakdiver wrote:Mother = kids so won't do time
Suspended sentence - possible
Banned from driving - no more than a year
Heavy fine - pleads poverty due to kids

You can only get "traffic punishments" such as driving bans and licence endorsements if you are found guilty of "traffic offences", where these punishments are specified in the legislation. As far as I can see from the article quoted, she was found guilty only of attempted GBH, not any traffic offence. Though it is possible the article did not draw attention to any subsidiary charges.
axel_knutt
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Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by axel_knutt »

beardy wrote:
Rehabilitation dramatically cuts the rate of recidivism, and yet John Darley's research shows that people are motivated by retribution not rehabilitation.


To want to control your penal policies purely based on the 0.13% of the population who are in jail while ignoring the 99.8% of the population who have not committed crimes because of the deterrent effect is all too common these days.

That assumes that rehabilitation doesn't have any effect.


No it assumes that "rehabilitation" has a very limited effect and that external conditions have a much greater effect. Which was illustrated by the hypothetical case which you dont even see as relevant.


The deterrence comes from locking them up in jail. Once they're in there, it makes no sense leaving them to pick their noses for 10 years rather than rehabilitating them. It's not so long ago there was a piece on the news about a pilot scheme allowing offenders to interview for jobs before their release date, and it made a huge difference to the recidivism rate because failure to find employment is a major factor in slipping back into crime. The scheme got cancelled at the end of the study, presumably because politicians know full well that there will be an outcry from voters who are motivated by retribution not rehabilitation.

It seems to me that people who want revenge more than a solution don't have much room to complain about the problem.
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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horizon
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Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by horizon »

According to some authorities prison has five functions:

1. It acts as a deterrent to others to prevent similar crimes.
2. It acts as retribution: this is important as it prevents people from taking revenge outside the law. It's why punishment must be in accordance with opinion.
3. It safeguards the public and potential victims by keeping criminals locked up.
4. It should provide opportunities for rehabilitation thus ensuring the offenders commit no further crimes.
5. It provides a more severe punishment in the case of other punishments such as fines and community service not being paid or adhered to.

You can (and most people do) pick whatever you want from the list and be satisified accordingly. However, you cannot have it all your own way - all five must be operative.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
tyreon
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Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by tyreon »

Sage comments! (On given posts)

Riding home this morning driver crosses bollard dividing road,basically driving up on 'wrong side of road' to all but wipe me out. Had he/she put my wife in a wheelchair I would have liked to have taken him/her out on the spot. For the murder/manslaughter I would go for the rehabilitation awarded to myself: wife in wheelchair/driver RIP. Seems okay!

Wots with the craziness of some of the people out there!

And,have I joined the craziness!
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