Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with SUV

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
Post Reply
kwackers
Posts: 15643
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by kwackers »

Lifetime ban.
thelawnet
Posts: 2736
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 12:56am

Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by thelawnet »

kwackers wrote:Lifetime ban.


I'm assuming she's looking at prison for this, also.
kwackers
Posts: 15643
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by kwackers »

thelawnet wrote:
kwackers wrote:Lifetime ban.


I'm assuming she's looking at prison for this, also.

You'd hope.

However here's my prediction. Suspended sentence at best, 6 month ban, some points and a £2k fine (plus costs).
yakdiver
Posts: 1466
Joined: 12 Jul 2007, 2:54pm
Location: North Baddesley Hampshire

Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by yakdiver »

Mother = kids so won't do time
Suspended sentence - possible
Banned from driving - no more than a year
Heavy fine - pleads poverty due to kids
Flinders
Posts: 3023
Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 6:47pm

Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by Flinders »

4x4s built higher than a standard saloon ought to require an additional driving test. Large 4x4s with slab-fronts, even those with less powerful engines, are very dangerous for pedestrians (because a pedestrian won't slide up the high bonnet in a collision, it will be a direct slap bang hit and the pedestrian will take all the energy in the collision) even if driven safely.
It is completely ridiculous for people to be using these vehicles for ordinary transport of people, shopping, etc. If they aren't going to be hauling a heavy trailer or going off-road on a regular basis, they ought not to be being used on the roads.
Last edited by Flinders on 9 Oct 2015, 6:04pm, edited 1 time in total.
Flinders
Posts: 3023
Joined: 10 Mar 2009, 6:47pm

Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by Flinders »

yakdiver wrote:Mother = kids so won't do time
Suspended sentence - possible
Banned from driving - no more than a year
Heavy fine - pleads poverty due to kids



I get sick of people using work and kids as an excuse for putting other people, including children, at risk. It should work the other way if anything, they should be penalised more.
People with kids ought to be more, not less, careful drivers, as they should know better than those without how easy it is for kids to get hurt in accidents. People who need to drive for work or to work will be driving more than they would otherwise, so by definition cannot be allowed to be worse drivers than anyone else.
Postboxer
Posts: 1929
Joined: 24 Jul 2013, 5:19pm

Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by Postboxer »

They should at least have social services involved to ensure the kids safety. Then they should decide that as she tried to murder someone, perhaps they aren't safe with her.
Postboxer
Posts: 1929
Joined: 24 Jul 2013, 5:19pm

Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by Postboxer »

Errr, why isn't it attempted murder? Oh right, because she used a car isn't it.
The fat commuter
Posts: 292
Joined: 12 May 2014, 7:54pm
Location: The hilly side of Sheffield

Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by The fat commuter »

Postboxer wrote:Errr, why isn't it attempted murder? Oh right, because she used a car isn't it.


Explained here:
Jon Fray of the Kingston Cycling Campaign said: "I am not experienced in law but I suppose the police picked the charge of attempted GBH because they thought that is the one that would stick.

“I have some sympathy for people who think it should have been a harsher [charge.]
thelawnet
Posts: 2736
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 12:56am

Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by thelawnet »

Postboxer wrote:Errr, why isn't it attempted murder? Oh right, because she used a car isn't it.


Because the cyclist wasn't a police officer.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... s-10231370
karlt
Posts: 2244
Joined: 15 Jul 2011, 2:07pm

Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by karlt »

No, this one has been done do death on Cyclechat.

The bar for attempted murder is that there has to be probable intent to kill. Not mere intent to cause injury. Not even recklessness as to whether death might occur. There must be actual intent to kill. This would be hard to prove in this case; indeed I personally doubt she intended to kill.

The bar for murder is only that there was intent to kill or cause serious injury. That is why the Liverpool case has resulted in one count of murder (for the dead PC) and one of attempt to wound (in the case of the one who jumped clear) - because, again, it would be very hard to prove the driver intended very specifically to kill.

You can be convicted of murder if your victim dies even if you didn't intend to kill them. You cannot be convicted of attempted murder in the same situation if your victim survives.

That is how the cases differ.
kwackers
Posts: 15643
Joined: 4 Jun 2008, 9:29pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by kwackers »

karlt wrote:indeed I personally doubt she intended to kill.

Some folk 'stick' others with knives or fire guns off at them without intending to kill, just to injure and frighten them.
I suspect a lot of folk are quite shocked at just how easy it can be to kill someone.

I seem to remember a case of 'murder' where the victim was stabbed in the leg. You wouldn't realistically expect someone to die from that - but if you hit an artery or major vein...
Then there's Rhys Jones, Sean Mercer was found guilty of his murder but yet he hadn't even fired at him, he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So if you take this into account then it would seem that simply firing a gun is enough even if you don't target the victim or intend that they die.
I guess there's a 'common sense' idea that if you fire a gun in a public place there's a realistic chance someone could be killed or injured, and if you accept that then I don't see that it's a huge leap to think that if you try to knock a cyclist down with a 4x4 then there's a realistic chance they could be killed or injured...

IMO if you're going to deliberately run over someone with a vehicle then to claim you didn't mean to kill them is as daft as firing a gun and claiming you didn't expect the same. The only real defence you've got is that you're too stupid to realise that people die when hit by vehicles and I'm not convinced anyone thinks that - which brings us back full circle.
If she deliberately drove at him intending to hit him then she must realistically know he could be killed therefore it's attempted murder.
Bicycler
Posts: 3400
Joined: 4 Dec 2013, 3:33pm

Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by Bicycler »

I think Karl covered it adequately. For the charge of attempted murder "knowing someone could be killed" is not the same as "attempting to kill"

As he also said, murder and attempted murder are different. To quote the CPS:
There are critical differences between murder and attempted murder; not only is the intended result not achieved but also, for attempted murder, there must have been an intention to kill whereas a charge of murder may arise where the intention was to inflict grievous bodily harm.
irc
Posts: 5192
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re: Woman found guilty of attempt to mow down cyclist with S

Post by irc »

thelawnet wrote:
Postboxer wrote:Errr, why isn't it attempted murder? Oh right, because she used a car isn't it.


Because the cyclist wasn't a police officer.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... s-10231370


The victim wasn't a police officer in these cases. still murder charges for the drivers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-32720566

http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news- ... ith-murder
Post Reply