Being rear ended

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mjr
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Re: Being rear ended

Post by mjr »

horizon wrote:I would say that people who don't use a mirror should give it a try and then stick with it long enough for it to become habitual.

I would say that people who use a mirror should try fitting one to a springy steel roadster with long swept handlebars, see how long it can take to understand the juddering image beside your waist and under your arm compared to a quick shoulder-check and then understand how mirrors aren't the best option on all cycles. I'm just trying to extend the comprehension, not argue against mirrors if they work for you on your bike.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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horizon
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Re: Being rear ended

Post by horizon »

I have a Blackburn drop bar mirror which fits snugly on the brake hoods. Because drops are narrower than say straights, the angle of vision is narrow which means that it is a split second glance - eye movement not head movement. I simply don't recognise this problem with judder: yes, of course on very bumpy roads but mostly not.

What I will say is that I cycle a lot on fast rural roads. This means that you can often keep tabs on individual vehicles (unlike in busy city streets). I know at all times whether there is a vehicle behind me or not.

I don't want to exaggerate its benefits but I think I will go back to what I said above - that it takes a bit of getting used to - so some people may not report much good at first but I would say persevere. I also think that this particular mirror is excellent and even the other Blackburn mirrors on straight bars are not as good (the angle of vision for a start but also how secure they are - the brake hoods on drops provide an excellent fixing point).

Other people may prefer other types of mirror but it's still a mirror and should hopefully change the way you ride.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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Heltor Chasca
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Re: Being rear ended

Post by Heltor Chasca »

All 3 collisions with vehicles I have had over the years have been from behind. That makes my stats 100%
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horizon
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Re: Being rear ended

Post by horizon »

And were you using a mirror?
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
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Heltor Chasca
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Re: Being rear ended

Post by Heltor Chasca »

horizon wrote:And were you using a mirror?


In all 3 cases NO. And in all 3 cases a mirror wouldn't have made the blindest bit of difference.

Oh no wait...I may have used one to get a splinter out my lower lip...b
Bicycler
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Re: Being rear ended

Post by Bicycler »

Heltor Chasca wrote:All 3 collisions with vehicles I have had over the years have been from behind. That makes my stats 100%

Whilst you were on your bike?
We need to distinguish between being hit from behind and being hit by a vehicle which approached from behind. Were you rear-ended? Or were they failed overtakes, cutting ups etc...?
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Heltor Chasca
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Re: Being rear ended

Post by Heltor Chasca »

Bicycler wrote:
Heltor Chasca wrote:All 3 collisions with vehicles I have had over the years have been from behind. That makes my stats 100%

Whilst you were on your bike?
We need to distinguish between being hit from behind and being hit by a vehicle which approached from behind. Were you rear-ended? Or were they failed overtakes, cutting ups etc...?


R.E. No. 1 Hit by the wing mirror of a van as I cycled over a flyover west of Stratford in East London. Close pass?

R.E. No. 2 Ended up on the bonnet of an old gent's car who's foot slipped off the clutch going round a roundabout in Whitechapel in London. Delinquency?

R.E. No. 3 Hit in the dark by a black BMW on the roundabout outside Lords CC. SIDSY?

In all 3 cases I was on my pushbike. I think the distinction between being rear ended, a vehicle approaching from behind, failed overtakes, being cut up etc may have been lost in translation with me. Have I ruined another thread with my rotten English? Apologies if so...b
Bicycler
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Re: Being rear ended

Post by Bicycler »

Nothing wrong with your English HC, but it is useful to draw a distinction between different types of incident involving vehicles coming from behind. When people talk of being rear ended they tend to mean being hit directly from behind rather than as part of a botched overtake or turning manoeuver. One of the great fears many new cyclists have is that drivers won't see them and will run into them from behind. In reality (as the OP says) this is fairly uncommon. We need to worry less about being seen from behind and more about anticipating (and where possible preventing) poor driving decisions.
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horizon
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Re: Being rear ended

Post by horizon »

Bicycler wrote: We need to worry less about being seen from behind and more about anticipating (and where possible preventing) poor driving decisions.


Which is why I use a mirror.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
akc1
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Re: Being rear ended

Post by akc1 »

horizon wrote:
Bicycler wrote: We need to worry less about being seen from behind and more about anticipating (and where possible preventing) poor driving decisions.


Which is why I use a mirror.

Very happy with 'bike eye' mirror. Doesn't vibrate. Also I always look behind before manoeuvres.
mjr wrote:
iviehoff wrote:I use always-on lights in London, though I only use super-bright lights at night.

That sounds backwards: don't you need less light at night?

I feel dazzling super-bright lights are a bad idea. People say things like this (actual quote from another site): "If I get stuck behind someone with one, I have to look away, or try harder to get past, or deliberately slow down to let them get some distance" and do you really want motorists avoiding looking at you or trying harder to get past?
beardy
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Re: Being rear ended

Post by beardy »

Mirrors are rather like helmets. Those who have them have been saved by them on occasions. Those who dont have them have not been so unlucky as to have needed to be saved by them.

On the other hand I have been tailended on my motorbikes and in my car (by cyclists even!), I watched them do it (in my mirrors) but of course didnt have time or ability to prevent it happening. When I have prevented it happening it was by predicting the situation was potentially dangerous and putting myself out of harm's way before harm drove onto the scene.
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horizon
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Re: Being rear ended

Post by horizon »

beardy wrote:Mirrors are rather like helmets.


Not in my view. I use the mirror all the time to inform me about what is happening on the road. I doubt a mirror would give me time to avoid a vehicle hitting me from behind. So "saved" is the wrong word. What it does give me is the opportunity to position my bike for the most comfortable passes - either I will have moved out (and discouraged a close pass) or moved in and allowed a better one. Or else just relaxed either because the vehicle is behaving correctly or because there isn't a vehicle there. It also tells me how wide and what sort of vehicle it is. This is all from occasional glances at the mirror while moving my eyes across the road in front of me. It also means I can make a very quick decision when avoiding potholes and the like. Knowing well in advance that you are about to be overtaken by a forty four ton HGV on a narrow fast road gives me time to respond.

Again, I can only speak from personal experience but that does seem to differ from others' on here. I lost my mirror recently and have cycled without it but the difference is huge. I'm ordering a new mirror now but if anyone has bought a Blackburn road mirror and isn't happy with it I am happy to buy it from them. :D
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
beardy
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Re: Being rear ended

Post by beardy »

Knowing well in advance that you are about to be overtaken by a forty four ton HGV on a narrow fast road gives me time to respond.


When it comes to 44 tonne trucks my ears give me more information than my eyes would. You can hear the gear change, the brakes, the engine speed, if and when they are starting to accelerate, slow or carry on regardless of my presence.
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horizon
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Re: Being rear ended

Post by horizon »

But you don't know how wide they're going to overtake without looking round, which you don't really want to do at that point. I can only reiterate - this is my personal experience and people deal with these situations differently.
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher
beardy
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Re: Being rear ended

Post by beardy »

But you don't know how wide they're going to overtake without looking round,


No I dont but it doesnt matter because there is nothing I can do about it!
With HGVs in particular because they tend to pass me with a very small speed differential, it doesnt matter how far out they are when they start the overtake. I get to watch them come back in while they are alongside me, no mirrors needed for that. They can be 2 metres to my right at the start of the overtake and still easily get their wheels back in the gutter before getting halfway past me.
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