TonyR wrote:Just an afterthought to the comments of a number of others: I rarely look behind at following traffic - I think it tells them you know they're there and should be getting out the way. Instead I drift slowly across the lanes or between secondary and primary so its clear what I'm doing but slowly enough for drivers to react. Again I rarely have problems doing so.
I can't disagree with this enough. This is like expecting motorists to give a ****. They don't. On one particular roundabout, if I hadn't checked behind on my left, saw the huge Audi suv creeping up the inside on the same lane as me and if I hadn't swerved like hell back to the right, I'd have been under it and waiting for an ambulance. Or a hearse.
+1 As a more vulnerable road user we should be more observant not less. There's a big difference between riding confidently & taking control of your space & behaving like you don't care if they run you down.
Strangely, I find roundabouts to be more troublesome when I'm driving my car. Mini ones are particularly bad, with other drivers rarely using indicators, and usually bullying others into giving way. I think motorists hate other drivers as much as they do cyclists.
Vantage wrote:I can't disagree with this enough. This is like expecting motorists to give a ****. They don't. On one particular roundabout, if I hadn't checked behind on my left, saw the huge Audi suv creeping up the inside on the same lane as me and if I hadn't swerved like hell back to the right, I'd have been under it and waiting for an ambulance. Or a hearse.
Perhaps you should try it before you condemn it. Like taking secondary or primary its counterintuitive and it works better IME. On the big roundabout on my commute and a long string of about 10 consecutive road narrowings, if I looked behind and waited for the gap I would never be able to get into position. But just moving out slowly but assertively without looking behind works every time for me. YMMV
Vantage wrote:I can't disagree with this enough. This is like expecting motorists to give a ****. They don't. On one particular roundabout, if I hadn't checked behind on my left, saw the huge Audi suv creeping up the inside on the same lane as me and if I hadn't swerved like hell back to the right, I'd have been under it and waiting for an ambulance. Or a hearse.
Perhaps you should try it before you condemn it. Like taking secondary or primary its counterintuitive and it works better IME. On the big roundabout on my commute and a long string of about 10 consecutive road narrowings, if I looked behind and waited for the gap I would never be able to get into position. But just moving out slowly but assertively without looking behind works every time for me. YMMV
Don't know that anybody said they were waiting for a gap. It's about knowing what's around you so that you can make the most appropriate decision. All roundabouts are different but an over the left shoulder look on the roundabout on my commute is essential to catch the drivers who are in the wrong lane and try to out accelerate the cyclist across the roundabout. I've caught out a few drivers by making my intentions clear.
A bike does more miles to the banana than a Porsche.
bogmyrtle wrote:Don't know that anybody said they were waiting for a gap.
I did.
It's about knowing what's around you so that you can make the most appropriate decision. All roundabouts are different but an over the left shoulder look on the roundabout on my commute is essential to catch the drivers who are in the wrong lane and try to out accelerate the cyclist across the roundabout. I've caught out a few drivers by making my intentions clear.
So you are cycling in secondary in the LH lane coming up to a roundabout as described by the OP and there is a steady stream of cars coming up behind and past you. How do you get across to the RH lane?
bogmyrtle wrote:Don't know that anybody said they were waiting for a gap.
I did.
It's about knowing what's around you so that you can make the most appropriate decision. All roundabouts are different but an over the left shoulder look on the roundabout on my commute is essential to catch the drivers who are in the wrong lane and try to out accelerate the cyclist across the roundabout. I've caught out a few drivers by making my intentions clear.
So you are cycling in secondary in the LH lane coming up to a roundabout as described by the OP and there is a steady stream of cars coming up behind and past you. How do you get across to the RH lane?
No I'm not in secondary in the left hand lane. That would be stupid given that lane leads to a motorway. It's on the roundabout the look over the left shoulder is essential to catch the drivers that are in the lane for the motorway but then go straight on and try to out speed me to go straight on.
A bike does more miles to the banana than a Porsche.
TonyR wrote:Perhaps you should try it before you condemn it.
No thanks. Unlike a cat, I don't have 9 lives. I'll err on the side of caution rather than living on faith.
Bill
“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
TonyR wrote:Perhaps you should try it before you condemn it.
No thanks. Unlike a cat, I don't have 9 lives. I'll err on the side of caution rather than living on faith.
That's the same reasoning people use to continue cycling in the gutter rather than using secondary or primary positioning.
I have to admit that I look aorund frequently. I like to know where cars are and the the drivers have seen me. Yes, looking back can be an invitation to overtake; I guess that everyone has to get a feel for that sort of thing for themselves.
I think it's a bit unfair, though, to equate cautiousness that results looking behind with cautiousness that results in riding in the gutter.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.” ― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
Vorpal wrote: Yes, looking back can be an invitation to overtake....
I find the opposite. Looking back warns the drivers and they back off and let me in.
It depends on the circumstances. Mostly, a look back is useful, and making eye contact even more so. A minority of drivers, however, seem to think it's an invitation, so there are situations where I don't look back before a maneuver.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.” ― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
I find that it does work with a lot of motorists as an invitation to overtake when I want them to. Possibly it is combined with a subtle bit of change in road positioning and that the situation has become good for an overtake to occur. By whatever means that it is happening, it does seem to be happening so logically it can also lead to them overtaking when it wasnt an invitation.
In those cases when the car is breathing down my neck, I have no need of a rear observation to tell me they are there. So I will not do an unnecessary observation which could trigger a stupid overtake. I may do a "hard stare" type observation along with a reinforcing hand signal (not two fingers but moving position) and bit of repositioning assertively.
In a two lane roundabout situation while they are in a separate lane, then overtake gets replaced with pushing into your lane. That needs to be physically blocked which is only possible so long as a bit of your bike is ahead of them. Once a bit of their car/lorry is ahead of you then you are heading for a loser.
TonyR wrote:Perhaps you should try it before you condemn it.
No thanks. Unlike a cat, I don't have 9 lives. I'll err on the side of caution rather than living on faith.
That's the same reasoning people use to continue cycling in the gutter rather than using secondary or primary positioning.
Absolute rubbish. Skipping across lanes like you own them without checking it's safe to do so is a great way of having a tipper truck jammed up your rear end and is giving motorists another reason to hate us. Cycling in the gutter is done by many because they feel the further away from traffic they are, the safer they are. It's one thing to make your presence known in the lane, quite another to dive under the wheels of following traffic.
Bill
“Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx It's a rich man whos children run to him when his pockets are empty.
661-Pete wrote:On any small to medium sized roundabout there is absolutely no reason for anyone to overtake anyone on the roundabout itself. Because the system we use in the UK - the same as in most other countries (but not all) - is that traffic already on the roundabout has priority, once you get on the roundabout you should be off it again in a few seconds. Unless the traffic around you is gridlocked of course. This applies whatever sort of vehicle you are using.
They ought to make it a specific offence to overtake on a roundabout.
A lot of roundabouts are actually designed to facilitate overtaking! There's one near me which is single carriageway and has straight on and left but there's no markings on the lanes. But the road splits into two lanes before the roundabout and then is two lanes after the roundabout for a hundred yards or so, which can only be to allow overtaking otherwise why is there two lanes after the roundabout.
