I rode off-road - fun, finding routes and how do you dress

Commuting, Day rides, Audax, Incidents, etc.
samsbike
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Re: I rode off-road - fun, finding routes and how do you dre

Post by samsbike »

al_yrpal wrote:
samsbike wrote:Cheers North Reading is a bit far out. The LBS does mtb rides but that is not really what I want, will get the OS maps.


This may be a bit far out too...http://www.rideastonhill.co.uk/ Personally I dont like places like this because they are not natural, but it might be an option?

I use a yellow highlighter pen on a copy of the OS map to highlight the bridleways, then routes seem to spring out at you. Of course there will be some road sections too to make up a loop.

Guess this is the sort of thing you are looking for...

ImageSalsa Vaya by Alyrpal, on Flickr

Al


Yep and gravel. Just not too technical.
reohn2
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Re: I rode off-road - fun, finding routes and how do you dre

Post by reohn2 »

Sam
I can't add anything to what's been said,other than after a while you get to know how mucky which tracks and routes tend to get,after whatever amounts of rain there's been.
Sometimes heavy rain can clean certain tracks whereas light rain makes the mud sticky.That kind of info can't be gained other than by experience over time.
OS maps and Google Earth are your friends :D
Rough stuff,love it,peace and quiet from the motors :D

EDIT:- I dress as I dress for 99% of my cycling,in Lycra,I find it far more comfortable than anything else.
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MikeF
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Re: I rode off-road - fun, finding routes and how do you dre

Post by MikeF »

Don't forget you can see OS maps on computers and smart phones etc at http://streetmap.co.uk/. I usually study a possible new/different route using the computer first. You can enlarge the display so it's easy to read as well, and I also note the contours! I then have a fairly good mental picture of where I will be going.
531colin wrote:....and I go on the ones (with green blobs on 2 1/2") which are "right of way, but we haven't decided exactly which right of way just now".
I know what you mean :lol:. Sometimes if you delve the local authority says they have "limited liability for maintenance", but still don't state what the right is. There are also "G" and "Q" roads, (see 1.4 here for a mention, if I remember correctly, with some sort of rights of way, but you'll have great difficulty finding out about them.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
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iviehoff
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Re: I rode off-road - fun, finding routes and how do you dre

Post by iviehoff »

Some mud turns to a sticky mire in winter. Some mud is so sticky you have to carry a bicycle over it, great clods adhering to the soles of your shoes. But some kinds of dirt surfaces can perfectly ridable even in winter, especially if explicitly constructed as an all-weather surface. Maps do not distinguish. But in general in winter I'd rather be somewhere high, slatey and peaty than somewhere low, clayey and chalkey.
Bicycler
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Re: I rode off-road - fun, finding routes and how do you dre

Post by Bicycler »

MikeF wrote:
531colin wrote:....and I go on the ones (with green blobs on 2 1/2") which are "right of way, but we haven't decided exactly which right of way just now".
I know what you mean :lol:. Sometimes if you delve the local authority says they have "limited liability for maintenance", but still don't state what the right is. There are also "G" and "Q" roads, (see 1.4 here for a mention, if I remember correctly, with some sort of rights of way, but you'll have great difficulty finding out about them.

We're going off topic here but anything other than A and B classification is allocated by a local authority for it's own internal use only and these vary widely from one county to the next. Most if not all use 'C' for other important roads but beyond that there's no consistency and the lettering has no statutory meaning. I like the revealing honesty of your LA's terminology; 'Q' seemingly means " ? - no idea about this" and "limited liability to maintain" reflects the lack of maintenance such routes receive in practice. Strictly, authorities are either liable to maintain a section of highway or not, there's no provision for having limited liability to maintain. I suspect what they mean is that the route is currently not surfaced and thus there is no obligation to provide such a surface.

In general if something isn't obviously a normal public road or listed on the definitive map the LA won't have much of an idea about existing levels of rights or else they would be on the definitive map. Those rural green dotted routes on the OS maps are monuments to the incompleteness of the definitive maps. IME they most often seem to be byways (ie. very minor unsurfaced roads) left off the original definitive maps because they were roads. The term 'byway' wasn't used back in the 1950s when the maps were compiled (and generally they have changed little since). Some such routes could have been recorded as "roads used as public paths" but the definition was confusing and use was inconsistent. Many areas seem to have focused on recording FP and BW rights, and not considered these very minor vehicular roads/tracks.
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Slow Loris
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Re: I rode off-road - fun, finding routes and how do you dre

Post by Slow Loris »

samsbike wrote: Unfortunately my commute home is through London which is no fun and I despise the canal path.

I just need to find something around NWLondon and Bucks that has a reasonable loop.


To the OP – whereabouts in NW London are you? I may be able to give you some pointers. If you're near Harrow/Watford it would be worth getting OS Landranger map 166 – there are a few off-road routes around West Herts / Chilterns which are non-technical and very pleasant when it's dry. As others have said, one of the best ways to find suitable routes is to go out exploring.

For Bucks, Wendover Woods is popular for MTB trails and easily accessible by train - Chiltern rail to Wendover. Another option is to hop on the Metropolitan line to Amersham or Chesham and check out the bridleways and byways there. The OS Explorer maps are ideal for those as they have more detail than the Landranger series. The Ridgeway has already been mentioned – it would be a long slog but there are great views from the top of Ivinghoe Beacon. I've no experience of off-roading in the Chilterns but I've often seen riders when I've been out walking.
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samsbike
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Re: I rode off-road - fun, finding routes and how do you dre

Post by samsbike »

Slow Loris I am in Ruislip
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Slow Loris
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Re: I rode off-road - fun, finding routes and how do you dre

Post by Slow Loris »

samsbike wrote:Slow Loris I am in Ruislip


Ah. I'm quite a bit further east and am not familiar with Ruislip. The TFL local cycle guide 3 covers your area - it shows some off road tracks that may or may not be decent for cycling on. If you don't already have this map (free from TFL) it could be worth checking out.

If you make your way east towards Watford or Bushey and cross over the M1, there are some good off-road paths between there and Radlett – Otterspool and Bricket Wood common are very pleasant. You could combine these with some quiet lanes to make a circular route.
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MikeF
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Re: I rode off-road - fun, finding routes and how do you dre

Post by MikeF »

Bicycler wrote:We're going off topic here but anything other than A and B classification is allocated by a local authority for it's own internal use only .....

Surrey's C&D roads are published on this map eg http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=538763&y=148050&z=110&sv=538763,148050&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf&dn=797&ax=538763&ay=148050&lm=0 as well as their own website

LAs vary, and I have 4 around here!, but as far as I know all have "C" roads and "D" roads. I know West Sussex has "E" roads as well, but these are not primarily for vehicle use if at all. I think, at least some LAs, know or at least are aware of more than you give them credit for. :wink:

The green dotted routes are not necessarily unmade roads, but they do tend to be minor ones.

"Roads used as public paths" had to be reclassified starting about 15 years ago so they don't exist now. One judge, apparently, couldn't understand the concept. :roll: Many were reclassified as Public Bridleways rather than Byways. Sadly I think the reclassification gave more "right" to motor vehicles, but that's a personal view.

On this "B" road the public footpath ie right of way is along a section of it! (Yes I know the OS map doesn't show that, but OS has numerous mistakes) And this is sign to warn motorists, but how many realise the reason.

But if you cycle outside London, where there aren't PROWs, you come across these issues.
"It takes a genius to spot the obvious" - my old physics master.
I don't peddle bikes.
Norman H
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Re: I rode off-road - fun, finding routes and how do you dre

Post by Norman H »

I'm reasonably local (NW7) but I'm not sure I can be of much help as I mostly cycle on tarmac. One advantage of this area is that it's on the edge of the Green Belt and in only a few miles you can be on quiet country roads.

From Ruislip out through Harefield and on to the Chalfonts will get you into some excellent cycling countryside. This route crosses the Grand Union Canal which forms part or NR61. To the south NR61 takes you to Uxbridge, Windsor and Maidenhead, using for part of the way the tow path alongside the Canal and the Jubilee River. Heading north will take you to Rickmansworth which is another good jumping off point for the Chilterns. Here NR61 becomes The Ebury Way (old rail bed) which will take you to Watford and from there deeper into Hertfordshire to St Albans. At St Albans NR61 becomes The Alban Way, once again on old rail bed, and takes you west to Hatfield and beyond to Hoddesdon and Ware. Just to the north at Welyn Garden City is the Ayot Green Way (part of NR57) which links Welwyn Garden City and Wheathamstead and might form part of a circular tour.

Arm yourself with an OS map and get out there exploring.
Bicycler
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Re: I rode off-road - fun, finding routes and how do you dre

Post by Bicycler »

Lancashire is one I know of with only C's and no D's, E's etc. Devon (IIRC) goes down to F's. As I said, unlike A and B roads, C, D, E, F, G, U, Q, X etc. are purely for local administration purposes without any set statutory definition, generally they end or change designation or number at administrative boundaries - a bit like public path numbers on definitive maps for that matter.

I agree I oversimplified what LA's may know about individual routes. This varies greatly but it is generally fair to say that unless there has been cause to investigate this (eg. for a definitive map order) they tend not to have too much info. Highway records have always been concerned primarily with maintenance liability rather than levels of public rights and this was a major reason for the creation of definitive maps of public rights in the first place. If an authority does believe they know the level of rights over an unrecorded route (and it is of a type which should be recorded on the definitive map) then they are neglecting their statutory duty to record it. This is actually now a very pressing issue. As it currently stands, on 1st January 2026 - a mere 10 1/2 years from now - all footpaths and bridleways which existed before 1949 (ie. when the definitive maps were created) but which are not recorded on the definitive maps will cease to be public highways. Non-vehicular highways need to be properly recorded ASAP.

RUPPs were recorded as part of the first definitive maps. The idea was to record very minor vehicular highways which were better considered as part of the ROW network than the road network. The eventual definition in the 1949 Act "a highway, other than a public path [footpath or bridleway*], used by the public mainly for the purposes for which footpaths or bridleways are so used" with its apparent focus on use rather than rights caused instant confusion. The recording of RUPPs was very inconsistent and very incomplete. Many areas simply didn't bother recording any vehicular roads or omitted many because they weren't much used by walkers or equestrians, some others recorded footpaths or bridleways which ran along private access roads as RUPPs

LA's were required to reclassify all RUPPs by the Countryside Act 1968 (47 years ago). The act stated that the draft revision must be done within 3 years of the Act :wink: Rights of way have always been low on some LA's list of priorities and with many LAs not anywhere near completing this process in the intervening 38 years, parliament redesignated the remainder en masse as Restricted Byways (a newly created category) in 2006. I'm intrigued to know how you feel that motorists were advantaged by this process.

*Public Path was defined elsewhere in the act as the collective term for footpaths and bridleways.
Last edited by Bicycler on 22 Apr 2015, 10:58am, edited 3 times in total.
Bicycler
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Re: I rode off-road - fun, finding routes and how do you dre

Post by Bicycler »

Norman H wrote:Arm yourself with an OS map and get out there exploring.

+1 it's great fun :D
Bmblbzzz
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Re: I rode off-road - fun, finding routes and how do you dre

Post by Bmblbzzz »

I enjoy byways, bridleways and towpaths and old railway lines, as long as they're not too muddy, steep or technical. My off-road skills are pretty near zero and I'm almost always on my road bike (not as in racing bike, but it's not a crosser or anything). I find them by chance or sometimes by looking on a map - OS 1:50,000 Landranger for me.

As for clothing, I'll wear whatever I happen to be wearing. These off-road sections are usually only a small part of my whole ride. If I were to go seriously off-roading - as in mtb, possibly even just rsf (but they don't have anything near me) - I probably would wear a helmet.
samsbike
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Re: I rode off-road - fun, finding routes and how do you dre

Post by samsbike »

Just to update. I went to my local lbs and had a chat with the owner who has been riding for 20 years on and off road.

I have joined his cycling group on strava which allows me to see a lot of his routes. I will print out a few and explore.

They also do weekday rides so I may try and join a couple to get a feel of where they go

thanks all
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