London mayor plans lorry fines to protect cyclists

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bovlomov
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London mayor plans lorry fines to protect cyclists

Post by bovlomov »

From The Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013 ... s-cyclists
Boris Johnson, announced a 12-week consultation to find out whether Londoners believe that lorries and HGVs should be fined if they are not fitted with basic safety equipment to protect cyclists.

Between 2008 and 2012 HGVs were involved in 53% of London cyclist deaths despite making up only 4% of the traffic. Johnson said: "I have long been worried that a large number of cyclist deaths involve a relatively small number of problem lorries which are not fitted with safety equipment.


Unfortunately, this on the day another London cyclist died after being hit by an HGV.
Antan1
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Re: London mayor plans lorry fines to protect cyclists

Post by Antan1 »

How many of the deaths were the fault of cyclists riding up the inside of these vehicles, I have a friend who is a very good HGV driver and comes across this bad habit almost every week.
It would be good to have more information
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thirdcrank
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Re: London mayor plans lorry fines to protect cyclists

Post by thirdcrank »

Antan1 wrote:How many of the deaths were the fault of cyclists riding up the inside of these vehicles, I have a friend who is a very good HGV driver and comes across this bad habit almost every week.
It would be good to have more information


How often does the driver of an HGV begin to overtake a cyclist and then lose all interest in what happens to them?
kwackers
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Re: London mayor plans lorry fines to protect cyclists

Post by kwackers »

thirdcrank wrote:
Antan1 wrote:How many of the deaths were the fault of cyclists riding up the inside of these vehicles, I have a friend who is a very good HGV driver and comes across this bad habit almost every week.
It would be good to have more information


How often does the driver of an HGV begin to overtake a cyclist and then lose all interest in what happens to them?

IME, a lot more often than it should.
(I posted an episode in 'on the road' a few weeks ago along with the response from the company after I'd emailed them.)
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bovlomov
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Re: London mayor plans lorry fines to protect cyclists

Post by bovlomov »

Antan1 wrote:It would be good to have more information

Here is a spreadsheet with all of the known information about severe crashes involving cyclists in London (2006-13).
TonyR
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Re: London mayor plans lorry fines to protect cyclists

Post by TonyR »

Antan1 wrote:How many of the deaths were the fault of cyclists riding up the inside of these vehicles, I have a friend who is a very good HGV driver and comes across this bad habit almost every week.
It would be good to have more information


Since most of them involve the driver being arrested and many of the prosecutions reveal a callous disinterest by the driver, not many.
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Re: London mayor plans lorry fines to protect cyclists

Post by Antan1 »

Surely if some cyclists behave like they are invincible then it is going to be harder to implement increased safety measures, when these so called cyclists get the rest of the good riders a bad name.
My friend was killed way back in the 70s by a lorry and nothing seems to have changed much since then.
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TonyR
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Re: London mayor plans lorry fines to protect cyclists

Post by TonyR »

Antan1 wrote:Surely if some cyclists behave like they are invincible then it is going to be harder to implement increased safety measures, when these so called cyclists get the rest of the good riders a bad name.


An Australian study using video recordings found that in 89% of collisions or near misses, the cyclist had been proceeding safely and legally beforehand and in 94% of those cases the driver showed no awareness of what they had just done. UK Police records also assess the driver to have been at fault in the overwhelming majority of collisions. So its invincible drivers safely wrapped up in their metal cocoons, not vulnerable exposed cyclists which are the problem.
MartinC
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Re: London mayor plans lorry fines to protect cyclists

Post by MartinC »

Antan1 wrote:How many of the deaths were the fault of cyclists riding up the inside of these vehicles, I have a friend who is a very good HGV driver and comes across this bad habit almost every week.
It would be good to have more information


It's a curious perversion of the normal duty of care to suggest that being in a lorry's blind spot makes any consequences your own fault. I think we'd alll accept that it's unwise but this is the classic victim blaming that's embedded in UK car culture. If I reverse into your parked car because it's in my blind spot would it be your fault?
reohn2
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Re: London mayor plans lorry fines to protect cyclists

Post by reohn2 »

MartinC wrote:It's a curious perversion of the normal duty of care to suggest that being in a lorry's blind spot makes any consequences your own fault. I think we'd alll accept that it's unwise but this is the classic victim blaming that's embedded in UK car culture..............

Spot on!
Rarely do I ride and not witness this phenomena,though TBH it's predominantly car drivers IME.
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hexhome
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Re: London mayor plans lorry fines to protect cyclists

Post by hexhome »

MartinC wrote:It's a curious perversion of the normal duty of care to suggest that being in a lorry's blind spot makes any consequences your own fault. I think we'd alll accept that it's unwise but this is the classic victim blaming that's embedded in UK car culture. If I reverse into your parked car because it's in my blind spot would it be your fault?


Agreed, but it is also perverse to call it a blind spot! It is possible to see all of these areas around an HGV if the driver looks. All HGVs are now fitted with mirrors covering them. If I enter a roundabout without looking can I blame the subsequent collision on a blind spot? Not as crazy as it sounds as there are now so many mirrors to see around :roll:
Steady rider
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Re: London mayor plans lorry fines to protect cyclists

Post by Steady rider »

http://www.grabtrucks.com/tipper-truck-specifications/
2.6 m wide?

Is this wider than a bus?

Should a width restriction be related to intended use, eg skip trucks no more than 2.5 wide as they will be picking up in mainly urban areas.

Actually the mirrors are wider than 2.6 m and near to head height, should some requirement on mirror be detailed?,
e.g 2.6 m including mirrors.
hexhome
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Re: London mayor plans lorry fines to protect cyclists

Post by hexhome »

Probably a bit academic but UK regs allow a max width for trucks and buses of 2.5 metres, new EU legislation now allows 2.55 metres though most are still 2.5m. The one exception to this (apart from locomotive) are refrigerated vehicles which are allowed a max of 2.6m.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986 ... ion/8/made

The widths given for that tipper vehicle are illegal for UK roads!
Geriatrix
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Re: London mayor plans lorry fines to protect cyclists

Post by Geriatrix »

hexhome wrote:The widths given for that tipper vehicle are illegal for UK roads!

An interesting point.

I remember reading some time ago that a disproportionate number of HGV/car crashes on the motorway involve foreign HGV's. If HGV drivers are disadvantaged by being on the "wrong side", does this not also affect cyclists? We talk of not filtering on the nearside of a lorry but surely that would be best practice with a foreign vehicle?
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stewartpratt
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Re: London mayor plans lorry fines to protect cyclists

Post by stewartpratt »

The Freight Transport Association issued a response which was, um, interesting:
http://beyondthekerb.wordpress.com/2013 ... ourselves/
(Parental/employee guidance: article contains two f-bombs.)

See also the addendum on this post:
http://beyondthekerb.wordpress.com/2013 ... week-no-3/
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