Government avoiding rail ticket reform

[Zigster]

I work four days a week, Mon-Thurs. I typically work from home one day a week as well.

My current season ticket prices (Haywards Heath to London terminals) are: £41.30 daily, £103.30 weekly, £396.70 monthly, £4,132 annual.

So 2.5 days is around break-even comparing daily to weekly. And buying daily means I have to queue up to buy the ticket and risk missing my train. The result is that I pay the same to travel 3 days a week as a full-timer does to travel 5 days a week. I'm amazed there haven't been any indirect sex discrimination claims against the rail companies (on the grounds that more women than men are likely to be part-timers).

One of my colleagues comes into London from the north (Thameslink, I think) and his train company allows a carnet approach - buy 10 tickets for the price of 8 or something like that. That seems pretty straightforward to apply so claims that it is too difficult are nonsense - a carnet wouldn't be a perfect solution but it would be better than nothing and very simple to implement. But Southern Rail, despite the clear links between Southern and Thameslink, appear unable to figure it out.

[jgurney]

claims that it is too difficult are nonsense - a carnet wouldn't be a perfect solution but it would be better than nothing and very simple to implement.

It quite agree and so I'm puzzled as to why that petition was not calling for them but specifically for flexible seasons - it was flexible seasons which I stated were probably difficult to implement, and I continue to think so.

[iviehoff]

I'm going up to Manchester with my daughter for a university open day, and the eye watering cost of the train has, as usual, turned the trip into a lovely long drive in the car. Even with all the hidden extra costs of the car I will save £100+.

I'm sure you can get from South Wales to Manchester return by rail for a lot less than £100 if you tried, let alone £100 plus car cost. I just did a search a couple of weeks ahead on Cardiff-Manchester, and at a first glance found fares as low as £45 return, and if an early peak departure was required, could do it for about £80. That was without even trying, and on through trains.

[iviehoff]

claims that it is too difficult are nonsense - a carnet wouldn't be a perfect solution but it would be better than nothing and very simple to implement.

It quite agree and so I'm puzzled as to why that petition was not calling for them but specifically for flexible seasons - it was flexible seasons which I stated were probably difficult to implement, and I continue to think so.

For carnets, you need an adequate gating infrastructure so tickets don't get reused. I don't know how widespread gates are on Southern. Maybe they are unwilling to target a product just at gated stations. But if you can get a carnet from Thameslink, surely that is adequate to travel from Haywards Heath to London as Thameslink travels from Haywards Heath to London, but maybe it is a non-interavailable ticket - cheap deals are generally not interavailable - and you need to go to Victoria.

Southern would probably feel that if you can already travel 3 days for the price of 2.5 on a weekly, then your complaint is a little loud, since the discount is already very similar to what you'd get with a carnet. I think what you are asking for is a bit more complicated than maybe you think you realise. Clearly there is potential for a lot more cleverness in tariffs, for example a smartcard that counts how many journeys you make per year and gives different levels of discount as the number of journeys over a whole year increases. But that requires smartcard infrastructure, and a system rather more clever than Oyster, and I don't think anything like that has ever been done.

[simonineaston]

Zactly the same deliberate obfuscation the private corporations apply to pricing energy so that it's impossible for consumers to make a meaningful choice based on value. It's enough to make you want to vote Labour...

[Bmblbzzz]

I'm going up to Manchester with my daughter for a university open day, and the eye watering cost of the train has, as usual, turned the trip into a lovely long drive in the car. Even with all the hidden extra costs of the car I will save £100+.

I'm sure you can get from South Wales to Manchester return by rail for a lot less than £100 if you tried, let alone £100 plus car cost. I just did a search a couple of weeks ahead on Cardiff-Manchester, and at a first glance found fares as low as £45 return, and if an early peak departure was required, could do it for about £80. That was without even trying, and on through trains.

I just had a look too. For two adults National rail gives two singles from £76 – but that means leaving at 4:35 and returning from 20:30! Otherwise it varies a bit but around £68 each way, or off-peak return for £164. Probably could find something cheaper with a bit of looking but unfortunately it's a clear example of scale economics favouring the car (ie two people cost twice as much on train or bus but not in car).

[mjr]

(ie two people cost twice as much on train or bus but not in car).

Except they don't, as already explained in previous posts, but never mind, you'd rather drive.

[PH]

I just had a look too. For two adults National rail gives two singles from £76 – but that means leaving at 4:35 and returning from 20:30! Otherwise it varies a bit but around £68 each way, or off-peak return for £164. Probably could find something cheaper with a bit of looking but unfortunately it's a clear example of scale economics favouring the car (ie two people cost twice as much on train or bus but not in car).

Even with the standard off peak return, a railcard would reduce it to £140 inc the £30 for the card, which could of course be used again and again.
Traveling at 8.05 there and 17.30 back would cost £120 for two, or £110 inc £30 for a rail card. Traveling back an hour later would save another £16.
pwa's claim was that the car would save £100+, the request to provide details so we could examine that claim wasn't taken up

[Bmblbzzz]

Railcards make a great difference and often worth getting just for one journey, yes. But is there one for this case? Travelling up for a university open day implies daughter is 17/18, so too old for a family rail card. Groupsave AFAIK only kicks in with four travelling together. As for saving £100 – I don't know how much it would cost to drive up there or exactly where in S Wales he's starting from, but there doesn't seem to be £100 to save.

[Bmblbzzz]

(ie two people cost twice as much on train or bus but not in car).

Except they don't, as already explained in previous posts, but never mind, you'd rather drive.

In this case, as far as I can see, they do; unless pwa's daughter actually is 15 or under. As for me prefering to drive – not at all. In fact, the only car journeys I've made this year have been in friends' cars, and only four of them.

[mjr]

Two Together railcard. £30 for a third off off peak.

Group save kicks in with 3 but still not useful here.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Which is another problem... too many flipping railcards.

To get the best (=a halfway reasonable) deal, I need a Network Railcard for travel in the south-east. Except that has a minimum fare during the week, so doesn't work if I'm just going to Oxford or Worcester. That's ok, I can buy a Cotswold Line Railcard for that. Only goes as far as Worcester, though, so if I'm heading off to the Marches with Mrs F then we need a Two Together Railcard.

And although the Network Railcard covers up to four people, that's actually "the cardholder plus up to three others" rather than "any of four named people", so Mrs F has her own Network Railcard.

Total cost so far: £97.50 per annum. I think we do save overall, but not that much.

[mjr]

Which is another problem... too many flipping railcards.

I'd agree with that. There are many ways the subscription card mess should be simplified - maybe made regional so it's similar to the Dutch system or German city tickets, or tiered single-person ones like the German national railcards.

[Bmblbzzz]

Two Together railcard. £30 for a third off off peak.

Group save kicks in with 3 but still not useful here.

Ok, that's useful. A bit of searching finds a 16-25 Railcard, less useful in this particular case but probably more useful overall for a daughter who's going off to uni.

Perhaps not exactly too many railcards but too specific in their uses and not all of them widely known or publicised. I've only heard of group save from a local rail users' group (and never had occasion to use it). They all seem to cost £30 and give similar benefits – 1/3 off most fares, generally speaking – but are limited in who they apply to: so the Two Together RC only applies to two named persons – useful if pwa will take his daughter to many unis, but what if she goes up with mum to one or on her own? Then she'll need a different TT RC! What would be great would be if one railcard for any specific group of people – young people, old people, disabled people, families with kids, etc – also applied to all others travelling with them on that journey, as long as they make the whole journey together. But perhaps this would mean too few people paying full fare...

[Postboxer]

Thought I'd post this here rather than starting a new thread about rail fares.

Apparently it's so expensive to get the train from Sheffield to Essex that it is cheaper to fly from Sheffield to Essex, via Berlin and have a mini holiday there, spending 7 hours in Berlin and having enough for a return train ticket from the airport to the city centre and for a currywurst for lunch.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/deals/ ... han-train/