The Great British Bake Off

blackbike
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Joined: 11 Jul 2009, 3:21pm

Re: The Great British Bake Off

Post by blackbike »

Bonefishblues wrote:
blackbike wrote:When firemen are being hired I'd prefer it if people with serious criminal records involving the death of a member of the public are not considered.

Am I being too fussy?

No you're not. That's your preference. Most other people on a Forum that's notably (and understandably) hard on driving offences don't agree with you, given the passage of time - and nor does the deceased's widow. That's about it, really.


No you're not. That's your preference. Most other people on a Forum that's notably (and understandably) hard on driving offences don't agree with you, given the passage of time - and nor does the deceased's widow. That's about it, really.[/quote]

The deceased widow is entitled to her opinion like anyone else.

I find it odd and disturbing that we are reduced to employing serious criminals in our fire brigades.

Jobs in our fire brigades are hard to get, with many applicants per job.

I'd like to know why London's fire brigade chose a careless criminal as a new recruit.
AlanJ
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Joined: 1 Aug 2013, 6:44pm

Re: The Great British Bake Off

Post by AlanJ »

Pity we no longer have a prison colony to send them to eh blackbike
TonyR
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Re: The Great British Bake Off

Post by TonyR »

AlanJ wrote:Pity we no longer have a prison colony to send them to eh blackbike


Of course if we still had the death penalty for any criminal offence it would not only solve blackbike's problem but would also remove many motorists from the road permanently. Write to your MP blackbike.
reohn2
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Re: The Great British Bake Off

Post by reohn2 »

TonyR wrote:
AlanJ wrote:Pity we no longer have a prison colony to send them to eh blackbike


Of course if we still had the death penalty for any criminal offence it would not only solve blackbike's problem but would also remove many motorists from the road permanently. Write to your MP blackbike.


And an endless number of convicted killers,found guilty,hung only to be found innocent later.
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"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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TonyR
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Re: The Great British Bake Off

Post by TonyR »

reohn2 wrote:
TonyR wrote:
AlanJ wrote:Pity we no longer have a prison colony to send them to eh blackbike


Of course if we still had the death penalty for any criminal offence it would not only solve blackbike's problem but would also remove many motorists from the road permanently. Write to your MP blackbike.


And an endless number of convicted killers,found guilty,hung only to be found innocent later.


Surely a price worth paying to keep one careless driver from becoming a fireman
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[XAP]Bob
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Re: The Great British Bake Off

Post by [XAP]Bob »

blackbike wrote:His conviction was 15 years ago, but how long was it after the conviction was it that he became a fireman?

In any case, for many jobs, including many in the public sector where safety of the public is obviously a major concern, convictions are never spent and always have to be declared, and show up on a CRB check.

It is very surprising indeed that a fire brigade chose to recruit a man with a criminal record involving carelessness which contributed to the death of another person.

A fireman needs to be careful and to save lives, not to be careless and cause death.

I think it is obvious that the fire brigade's recruitment staff did not regard causing a death by careless driving as a particularly serious criminal offence, and something that could be disregarded.

Is that acceptable?


It's such a shame that we can never learn from our mistakes.
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Bonefishblues
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Re: The Great British Bake Off

Post by Bonefishblues »

TonyR wrote:Surely a price worth paying to keep one careless driver from becoming a fireman

I expect the OP's moral standards would mean he have the integrity to remain in a burning building rather than be rescued by such an individual.
reohn2
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Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: The Great British Bake Off

Post by reohn2 »

blackbike wrote:His conviction was 15 years ago, but how long was it after the conviction was it that he became a fireman?

In any case, for many jobs, including many in the public sector where safety of the public is obviously a major concern, convictions are never spent and always have to be declared, and show up on a CRB check.

It is very surprising indeed that a fire brigade chose to recruit a man with a criminal record involving carelessness which contributed to the death of another person.

A fireman needs to be careful and to save lives, not to be careless and cause death.

I think it is obvious that the fire brigade's recruitment staff did not regard causing a death by careless driving as a particularly serious criminal offence, and something that could be disregarded.

Is that acceptable?

Don't you think this man would've sat a test and an interview,and possibly been questioned about his driving conviction(s)
Don't you think this man(like all other trainee firemen and women)would've gone through an extensive and intensive training program?
Don't you think he perhaps should be judged on the whole of his life rather than one careless moment?
Do you think anyone deserves a shot at redemption?
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
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Bonefishblues
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Re: The Great British Bake Off

Post by Bonefishblues »

reohn2 wrote:Don't you think this man would've sat a test and an interview,and possibly been questioned about his driving conviction(s)
Don't you think this man(like all other trainee firemen and women)would've gone through an extensive and intensive training program?
Don't you think he perhaps should be judged on the whole of his life rather than one careless moment?
Do you think anyone deserves a shot at redemption?

Absolutely not a shadow of a doubt about that.
Psamathe
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Re: The Great British Bake Off

Post by Psamathe »

blackbike wrote:...
I think it is obvious that the fire brigade's recruitment staff did not regard causing a death by careless driving as a particularly serious criminal offence, and something that could be disregarded.
...

I can't see that anywhere in the article. Are you just assuming that is the case. It may just have easily been the case that the Fire brigade's recruitment staff took it very seriously, maybe questioning him for hours on the matter, maybe making extra tests, maybe requiring expert checks, maybe longer probationary periods, etc. From what I can see we just don't know so I can't understand where you get the "obviously ..." from.

Ian
beardy
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Re: The Great British Bake Off

Post by beardy »

Under existing law, those who been sentenced to periods of four years or less in prison who do not offend again do not need to disclose their criminal past. There is a precise schedule governing when such offences are deemed to be spent.


I dont know if the Fire Brigade has a special right to demand total disclosure (like teachers are obliged to do). There is even a new law going through that will make it illegal for companies to "force" disclosure of spent convictions from job applicants.

It was society (and the Judge who didnt give a custodial sentence) that decided this was a minor offence not worthy of long term stigmatisation.
Bonefishblues
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Re: The Great British Bake Off

Post by Bonefishblues »

beardy wrote:
Under existing law, those who been sentenced to periods of four years or less in prison who do not offend again do not need to disclose their criminal past. There is a precise schedule governing when such offences are deemed to be spent.


I dont know if the Fire Brigade has a special right to demand total disclosure (like teachers are obliged to do). There is even a new law going through that will make it illegal for companies to "force" disclosure of spent convictions from job applicants.

It was society (and the Judge who didnt give a custodial sentence) that decided this was a minor offence not worthy of long term stigmatisation.

http://www.fireservice.co.uk/recruitment/faq#14
AlanJ
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Joined: 1 Aug 2013, 6:44pm

Re: The Great British Bake Off

Post by AlanJ »

And if the article is correct he was convicted of careless driving (even if a death occurred) rather than causing death by careless driving. In law those two are very different and that incident could've been what change and choose a life of saving lives.
TonyR
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Joined: 31 Aug 2008, 12:51pm

Re: The Great British Bake Off

Post by TonyR »

AlanJ wrote:And if the article is correct he was convicted of careless driving (even if a death occurred) rather than causing death by careless driving. In law those two are very different and that incident could've been what change and choose a life of saving lives.


Not sure the death by careless driving charge existed then. It came in in the Road Safety Act 2006 and came into force in August 2008.
maxcherry
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Re: The Great British Bake Off

Post by maxcherry »

Slightly off topic.

Does the crime make a difference as to how people are treated after they have done the prison term?
There is murder, rape, pedophilia, arson, manslaughter etc committed by people who are released from prison, end up in a small job or on drugs or unemployed. Would these
people get treated the same as the fireman or are they untouchable for life.
Honestly chaps, I'm a female!
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