42 points & still driving!

[beardy]

I am probably just out of date.

I do remember most clearly a few dispatch riders only getting fines when caught in temporary speed limits on motorways. Word got around fast that these limits were therefore "optional". This was possibly prior to 1988.

[Bonefishblues]

Puzzled by the report in that there were 7 offences, 6 of 32 in a 20, plus the red light offence, so where does the 109 in a 50 come in?

[Pete Owens]

I have always thought that the 20mph limit was not a part of the ENDORSABLE statutory speed limit law.

Then you have been listening to the anti-speed-limit campaigners too much - and not quite listening carefully enough.
The usual claim was that it was not enForcable - and then that was just by taking two words out of the usual the usual police statement that they couldn't be buttocked to enforce such limits.

[Bicycler]

I disagree completely...




...it was 3 words

[TonyR]

Puzzled by the report in that there were 7 offences, 6 of 32 in a 20, plus the red light offence, so where does the 109 in a 50 come in?

Yes, its confusing. What it says is

Six of the offences included driving at 32mph in a 20mph zone, Essex Police said. The seventh offence involved going through a red light.

Which means I think that one of the six was doing 32mph in a 20mph zone, not that all six were, because of the other offence listed of doing 109mph in a 50mph zone.

[Bonefishblues]

Presumably in a hurry to buy shoots and leaves?

[Deako]

Are there not systems available yet that can limit a cars speed based on GPS and mapping data?

If it's not there yet it can't be far off - I've used GPS systems which tell me when I've entered temporary speed restrictions due to road works, let alone fixed limits.

As and when - 12 or more points it should be mandatory to have such a system fitted to any car you want to drive, when your let back on the road (or immediately for those too (self) important to ban).

Greg

[Psamathe]

One aspect that surprises me is that the court system (or politicians) does/have not established a threshold number of points above which "hardship" arguments simply do not apply.

Ignoring the rights and wrongs of the "hardship" exception to when you would be banned, there must be some point at which, when the driver is already above 12 points and has used "hardship" to avoid being banned, subsequent offences revoke the hardship case they used and they get banned. i.e. "hardship" is not a "get out of jail free" card allowing you to just accumulate points without every getting banned.

If a driver on final notice having escaped a ban through a questionable argument anyway can't stick to the law they are either having a laugh at the authorities or their driving is so bad they should not be on the roads (whatever hardship that causes).

Maybe, somebody facing a 12 month ban who does not get banned on the basis of "hardship" should instead get a suspended ban for 5 years (rather than the ban for 1 year) and any offences in that time result in an automatic 5 year ban.

Ian

[TonyR]

Are there not systems available yet that can limit a cars speed based on GPS and mapping data?

If it's not there yet it can't be far off - I've used GPS systems which tell me when I've entered temporary speed restrictions due to road works, let alone fixed limits.

As and when - 12 or more points it should be mandatory to have such a system fitted to any car you want to drive, when your let back on the road (or immediately for those too (self) important to ban).

Greg

The systems exist but an accurate database of speed limits for them to work off does not and that is a major and expensive problem. As has been found with most Government and Local Authority data, when it has been exposed to the light of day as has happened with e.g. bus stop data, it has been found to be full of errors. In the bus stop case it was fixed by crowd sourced corrections but it didn't matter too much if the data was wrong or the crowd sourced corrections wrong. With speed limits it does.

There are speed limit databases used by TomTom and others but my experience of them is that they are wrong far too often to rely on - several times on any long journey - and that they are not getting corrected. In that situation you cannot run a system where prosecutions can result from errors. You cannot even invert things and declare that the database is henceforth the reference for prosecution as many people do not have GPS and rely on the road signs to tell them what the limit is.

[PRL]

Are there not systems available yet that can limit a cars speed based on GPS and mapping data?

If it's not there yet it can't be far off - I've used GPS systems which tell me when I've entered temporary speed restrictions due to road works, let alone fixed limits.

As and when - 12 or more points it should be mandatory to have such a system fitted to any car you want to drive, when your let back on the road (or immediately for those too (self) important to ban).

Greg

The systems exist but an accurate database of speed limits for them to work off does not and that is a major and expensive problem. .

Need that be a problem ? The responsibility for observing speed limits rests with the driver. The system (usually) prevents speeding but "my car didn't stop me" is not an excuse if the database had the limit too high. If the database had it too low then tough !

[Vorpal]

In my opinion, there should be a significant burden of proof to show hardship, such as a disabled family member for who there is limited or no community transport available, a job somewhere with a significan commute that is not served by public transport, an elderly parent who needs frequent trips to a specialist 30 miles away, etc.

And then, the person's driving should be limited only to those activities for which the hardship in incurred. For example, taking the elderly parent to the specialist 30 miles away. At the same time, the person should be required fit a 'black box' that will record all driving parameters. If caught driving in any other circumstance, they would then receive a life ban.

If it's simply a matter of cycling, walking, using public transport, etc., tough. The right to drive was lost about 30 points ago.

42 points and still driving is insane.

[thirdcrank]

The legislation that deals with totting upo is largely s35 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.

With regard to hardship, the legislators could hardly have been clearer:

When a court is deciding whether to reduce the topping up disqualification including not disqualifying at all the things which cannot be taken into account include "hardship, other than exceptional hardship."

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/section/35

The courts seem to accept anything short of the life of Riley as amounting to exceptional hardship.

Googling any of this is to be swamped with hits from lawyers offering to help keep your licence.

[TonyR]

Are there not systems available yet that can limit a cars speed based on GPS and mapping data?

If it's not there yet it can't be far off - I've used GPS systems which tell me when I've entered temporary speed restrictions due to road works, let alone fixed limits.

As and when - 12 or more points it should be mandatory to have such a system fitted to any car you want to drive, when your let back on the road (or immediately for those too (self) important to ban).

Greg

A friend from university got a two year drink driving ban and as a sales rep for a weigh scales company he managed to do his job for those two years by public transport and help from colleagues who dropped off the heavier scales to potentially interested purchasers. It was extremely hard work for those two years but done and lesson definitely learnt.