Edinburgh Tram Tracks Court Case

[irc]

The council being sued by 60 cyclists who have crashed due to unsafe mix of cycling "facilities" and tram tracks.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-e ... e-30951833

This tram tracks story has been ongoing since 2009.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edi ... 400094.stm

[661-Pete]

We've known for some time about the failings in the Edinburgh trams, but the third picture in the BBC article, the one titled "The west end of Princes street", is absolutely breathtaking in its idiocy. I mean, I've negotiated the Croydon tram network (the only flush-rail tramway in SE England) a few times, and I've thought it bad in places - but it's nothing compared to this.

Certainly, if I were cycling along that road, I would boycott the marked 'cycle' infarcestructure entirely, riding in one of the left-hand lanes instead. I would also be damn sure I was riding in primary all the way, if I felt hassled by motorists. And I would ignore the left-turn markings if I wanted to go straight on. That picture looks like it was taken when the tramway was still under construction, is it still like that now? Anyway, if it's a choice between breaking traffic regulations and risking death or serious injury, I know where I'd want to go!

I'm almost tempted to say, someone go out there and pour quick-setting cement into all the tramway slots!

[merseymouth]

Hello All, I am mindful of the report in the cycling press of the Inquest into the death of frame-builder Maurice Selbach? It was back in the 1930's, possibly 35 or 37. He sadly was killed by the silly tram tracks, a very competent cyclist who was used to their presence!
The Coroner condemned the use of the steel death traps, putting on record his belief that that they should be torn up as quickly as possible? With so few cars on the road in those days he had less to cope with than we in this day & age with vastly more cars to prevent choice of a safe route!
I note that I spent the first half of my life to date watching "Tram-Tracks" & "Granite Setts" being dug up, only to find in the second half them being re-instated!!!!! Progress? TTFN MM

[661-Pete]

Hello All, I am mindful of the report in the cycling press of the Inquest into the death of frame-builder Maurice Selbach? It was back in the 1930's, possibly 35 or 37. He sadly was killed by the silly tram tracks, a very competent cyclist who was used to their presence!
The Coroner condemned the use of the steel death traps, putting on record his belief that that they should be torn up as quickly as possible? With so few cars on the road in those days he had less to cope with than we in this day & age with vastly more cars to prevent choice of a safe route!
I note that I spent the first half of my life to date watching "Tram-Tracks" & "Granite Setts" being dug up, only to find in the second half them being re-instated!!!!! Progress? TTFN MM

This is a story I've been trying to track down for a long time. But I didn't know the name! More information here.

1935 - Death of M G Selbach
On Thursday 26th September 1935 Maurice G Selbach left Leander Road, Thornton Heath on one of his own cycles for the relatively short journey to his business premises in Kennington Road. He was not due to go to work on this day but, being the conscientiousn sort, wanted to make sure all was okay. At around 10.30, just under 4 mile into his journey, he made a manoeuvre past a truck and whilst returning to the near side of the road encountered some particularly badly laid tram rails that caused him to fall from the cycle under the wheel of the truck. He died en route to hospital. His funeral was attended by over 150 well-known cyclists and representatives of cycle manufacturing firms together with family and friends. The service was held at Streatham Park Cemetery. At the inquest the coroner recored accidental death by the cycling press felt the poor state of the installation and repair fo the tram lines had played a big part in the accident. Mrs Selbach had a special headstone made which showed a photograph of Maurice edged in gold. Below the picture was a sculpted bicycle leaning against a milestone. Above this were the words "He died as he lived. A cyclist". In order to preserve it, the headstone was moved in 2004 to the National Cycle Museum in Powys where it is now on display.

My father-in-law, who also lived in Thornton Heath at the time, knew Selbach quite well, and I remember him relating to us the tragic circumstances of his death, as described in the above quote; but if he mentioned Selbach by name, I had forgotten it. Thanks for enlightening me!

[merseymouth]

Hello 661 Pete, Glad to have put a name to your long forgotten memory. I learnt about the incident in a copy of Cycling, which was featuring the inquest, might still have the copy in my hidden hoard? Even then the powers that be tried all of the usual ruse in the book to attribute all of the blame on the cyclist, so nothing new there then?
Even stated that his tyres were too narrow, 26" x 1.125", good job he hadn't been on sprints & tubs!
I have a long history of riding with tram tracks, but even so I nearly got taken into a Brussels tram depot a few years back? Luckily I was on a trike so suffered not real trauma, only frayed nerves.
I was in Rochdale last year, unfinished project of track-laying left me with feelings of Deja Vouz! The people planning these impositions should follow the 1914 model created by J.A. Brodie in Liverpool, dual carriageway with central sleeper track for the trams, far safer for all. TTFN MM

[TonyR]

The first picture in the top BBC link is indeed dreadful. You should either ride parallel to any tram tracks and if you have to cross them only do so at 90 degrees. That cycle lane that invites you to cross them at 45 degrees is just asking for trouble......but of course there is no way, the way its laid out, to cross them at 90 degrees if you wanted to.

[661-Pete]

In Croydon, crossing tram tracks at an obllique angle is something you have to do here, if you want to turn right and choose to follow the marked cycle lane. I have negotiated that junction a few times since the tramway was installed, but I think I've always ignored the 'infarcestructure' and endeavoured to cross the rails at nearer to 90°. But on some systems in other parts of the country, that may simply not be possible.

Interestingly, up until about 1960, trolleybuses were used on exactly the same route, as can be seen by this picture of the same junction (note that it is looking in the opposite direction to my Streetview grab). Far more cycle-friendly! Alas! At the tender age of ten I wouldn't have been allowed to cycle through the busy traffic of Croydon, not even without its trams!

[karlt]

They clearly learnt nothing from Sheffield...

[mjr]

The first picture in the top BBC link is indeed dreadful. You should either ride parallel to any tram tracks and if you have to cross them only do so at 90 degrees. That cycle lane that invites you to cross them at 45 degrees is just asking for trouble......but of course there is no way, the way its laid out, to cross them at 90 degrees if you wanted to.

It seems possible to continue straight ahead in each direction from the right-most of the left-turn lanes and keep left of the tracks even through the narrow bits, but that would allow buses and trams to try to squeeze past, so it's not great. It's also completely not what the markings direct cyclists to do. This looks like almost an "attractive nuisance" as I understand it (a hazardous object/situation likely to attract victims) - does Scottish law have such a concept?

[merseymouth]

Hi All, If anyone wants to see the risk posed to cyclists by tram-tracks then watch a re-run of the latest "Top Gear" episode? The sight of "The Hamster" going base over apex on a £9'000 Pinarello is worth the pain & suffering of having to put up with Clarkson!
I watch it to see how pig ignorance pays the bills for the maladjusted trio. TTFN MM

[tatanab]

merseymouth, you and I have the additional problem of being tricyclists. The track width of the rails is not an awful lot more than the track width normally used on tricycles, and that is before you consider wider ones.

I rode through Basle, Switzerland. Riding into the city I had to stop only once because of dropping a wheel into the track, I was carrying camping kit so could not try to lift the wheel out without stopping. Riding out of the city on narrower roads, I knew that there was a mile that was likely to be very busy so I walked along the footway instead. Discretion being the better part .... and so on.

[Cyril Haearn]

It is possible to fill the grooves with stiff rubber that does not give under cycle wheels but does give under tram wheels.

[snibgo]

This is appalling.

Clearly, the designer has never tried cycling on such dangerous junk.

Sue the council? Certainly. But it's just taxpayers money. How much would the council care? How much would the designers care?

Just like the recent example of a half-kerb causing accidents, someone should lose their job over this.

[Mick F]

Why was it allowed to be made like that?
Did the regular cyclists not object when they were painting the road?
Did no-one tell the authorities BEFORE there was an accident?

TBH, I'm mystified why no-one said anything. I certainly would have done.

[FarOeuf]

Why was it allowed to be made like that?
Did the regular cyclists not object when they were painting the road?
Did no-one tell the authorities BEFORE there was an accident?

TBH, I'm mystified why no-one said anything. I certainly would have done.

It was started as a New Labour vanity project, and back then NL were a pretty fanatical bunch. Lots of complaints to the project as a whole and to individual aspects (such as impact on cycling) were made. All fell on deaf ears. The SNP tried to quash the project, but the deal done by NL and the project contractors meant it would cost more not go ahead (water tight contracts for the suppliers, not buyers). So it turned into one of those 'come hell or high water' projects.

The worst aspect of the Haymarket junction (where the photo is) is that the traffic lights have been moved further away from the actually road crossing. So, with five roads crossing over, there's a large no-mans-land in the middle. Of course they've put yellow hatching down, but due to the distance needed to drive across the junction (some 100 yards) vehicles get stuck in the middle quite often. There's also a bus stop immediately after one pedestrian crossing, but there's a traffic island too. So if a couple of buses are at the stop, cars come round the corner and can't get through therefore backing up over the pedestrian crossing.

Whomever did the traffic modelling for the trams, ought to be questioned and then sent back to school. But I think the real problem is that the politicians (despite almost overwhelming public opposition) decided to continue. The cycling accidents can be added to the flats that were damaged by the road works, the shops gone out of business during the road closures, etc, etc.

"The entire project was going to be scrapped by the SNP when the Nationalists formed their first minority government at Holyrood in 2007, only for the decision to be overturned by the will of the other parties in the Scottish Parliament." - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-27159614

I'm not advocating the SNP (or otherwise), but 'the people' did say something and it was heard, only to be overturned by less receptive representives of 'the people'.

cheers,