Why long prison sentences are not the answer

User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 10593
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Why long prison sentences are not the answer

Post by 661-Pete »

reohn2 wrote:It's took me a while to compose myself after reading this.
The sentence is utterly disgraceful.
Not only will she be free in 2 to 21/2 years,she'll be driving again in 5years subject to passing her driving test.
Is this what society deems to be appropriate punishment for this persons actions?
If so it's despicable.

The only instance where a motorist while overtaking me collided with another vehicle, the offender was also a young woman aged not much over 20, I'd estimate - and bore a striking resemblance to the woman in this case. At least that accident didn't result in death or serious injury. I have a strong aversion to young motorists and this tragic case does nothing to raise my opinion of them. Something on the lines of compulsory responsible adult supervision of such drivers, or a governor fitted to their car, or a breathalyzer device in the car, or whatever. If we really can't raise the minimum driving age to 25, which is my preferred option. But as an oldie, I suppose I would say that.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Why long prison sentences are not the answer

Post by reohn2 »

Tonyf33 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The video shows that if you want to,you can catch people doing wrong.
However if there's not police on the streets there's no chance of catching people,that is the position the UK is ATM.
It's been deemed by politrickians that we can't afford to police the streets.
Only last week a chief of one police force stated that if the proposed 2015 cuts go ahead his force will collapse and he can't guarantee it to be effective anymore.


Given that the Dispatches undercover operation recently showed how much time wasting, pratting about and generally micturate poor policing goes on I'm sure there are plenty of areas that can be tightened up to make (ALL) police forces more effcient financially (as well as operationally)...a lot more!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq9YiYzqmH4

I can only agree after seeing the mess conducted by the police on numerous occasions.

Sick of hearing whining from the public sector when it comes to cut backs, sort your carp out, become more efficient and do your jobs, you're not on bleeding holiday :evil:

Bit of a sweeper that Tony.
Though where the police are concerned after watching the linked program I can see why you'd post that.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
pete75
Posts: 16370
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Why long prison sentences are not the answer

Post by pete75 »

661-Pete wrote:
reohn2 wrote:It's took me a while to compose myself after reading this.
The sentence is utterly disgraceful.
Not only will she be free in 2 to 21/2 years,she'll be driving again in 5years subject to passing her driving test.
Is this what society deems to be appropriate punishment for this persons actions?
If so it's despicable.

The only instance where a motorist while overtaking me collided with another vehicle, the offender was also a young woman aged not much over 20, I'd estimate - and bore a striking resemblance to the woman in this case. At least that accident didn't result in death or serious injury. I have a strong aversion to young motorists and this tragic case does nothing to raise my opinion of them. Something on the lines of compulsory responsible adult supervision of such drivers, or a governor fitted to their car, or a breathalyzer device in the car, or whatever. If we really can't raise the minimum driving age to 25, which is my preferred option. But as an oldie, I suppose I would say that.


Not a bad idea. Minimum age to drive of 25 and maximum age of 65.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
pete75
Posts: 16370
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Why long prison sentences are not the answer

Post by pete75 »

reohn2 wrote:
Tonyf33 wrote:
reohn2 wrote:The video shows that if you want to,you can catch people doing wrong.
However if there's not police on the streets there's no chance of catching people,that is the position the UK is ATM.
It's been deemed by politrickians that we can't afford to police the streets.
Only last week a chief of one police force stated that if the proposed 2015 cuts go ahead his force will collapse and he can't guarantee it to be effective anymore.


Given that the Dispatches undercover operation recently showed how much time wasting, pratting about and generally micturate poor policing goes on I'm sure there are plenty of areas that can be tightened up to make (ALL) police forces more effcient financially (as well as operationally)...a lot more!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq9YiYzqmH4

I can only agree after seeing the mess conducted by the police on numerous occasions.

Sick of hearing whining from the public sector when it comes to cut backs, sort your carp out, become more efficient and do your jobs, you're not on bleeding holiday :evil:

Bit of a sweeper that Tony.
Though where the police are concerned after watching the linked program I can see why you'd post that.


The New York Police Department runs on a budget of about £3 billion a year, the Met on £4 billion. NYPD has 34,500 front line officers and the Met 31,500. It would seem NYPD is somewhat more efficiently run.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
User avatar
661-Pete
Posts: 10593
Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 8:45pm
Location: Sussex

Re: Why long prison sentences are not the answer

Post by 661-Pete »

pete75 wrote:Not a bad idea. Minimum age to drive of 25 and maximum age of 65.
:roll: :twisted:
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Why long prison sentences are not the answer

Post by reohn2 »

pete75 wrote:
The New York Police Department runs on a budget of about £3 billion a year, the Met on £4 billion. NYPD has 34,500 front line officers and the Met 31,500. It would seem NYPD is somewhat more efficiently run.


On the face of it yes I'd have to agree.
I'd no idea of the facts and figures TBH.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Psamathe
Posts: 17650
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Why long prison sentences are not the answer

Post by Psamathe »

reohn2 wrote:
pete75 wrote:
The New York Police Department runs on a budget of about £3 billion a year, the Met on £4 billion. NYPD has 34,500 front line officers and the Met 31,500. It would seem NYPD is somewhat more efficiently run.


On the face of it yes I'd have to agree.
I'd no idea of the facts and figures TBH.

I wonder how much of the difference is down to areas of responsibility. e.g. Met responsible for e.g. fraud investigation (incl. bank fraud, MP's fraud, etc.), etc. - does the NYPD have the same burden ? Does the NYPD have to send officers undercover to have elicit affairs (and children) with suspects, to encourage laws to be broken so they can then arrest somebody (before having to pay them massive compensation ? Is one really comparing like with like.

Not that I am impressed by the UK Police, just that if as a society we are to find a real solution rather than just be critical we need to ensure we are looking at the correct/valid data.

Ian
pete75
Posts: 16370
Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: Why long prison sentences are not the answer

Post by pete75 »

Psamathe wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
pete75 wrote:
The New York Police Department runs on a budget of about £3 billion a year, the Met on £4 billion. NYPD has 34,500 front line officers and the Met 31,500. It would seem NYPD is somewhat more efficiently run.


On the face of it yes I'd have to agree.
I'd no idea of the facts and figures TBH.

I wonder how much of the difference is down to areas of responsibility. e.g. Met responsible for e.g. fraud investigation (incl. bank fraud, MP's fraud, etc.), etc. - does the NYPD have the same burden ? Does the NYPD have to send officers undercover to have elicit affairs (and children) with suspects, to encourage laws to be broken so they can then arrest somebody (before having to pay them massive compensation ? Is one really comparing like with like.

Not that I am impressed by the UK Police, just that if as a society we are to find a real solution rather than just be critical we need to ensure we are looking at the correct/valid data.

Ian


According to it's organisational structure NYPD has a Special Fraud Squad so presumably it does investigate fraud. In England it's not the Met that is responsible for specialist fraud investigation but the City of London Police who say this on their website "The City of London Police Economic Crime Directorate is recognised as the national policing lead for fraud and is dedicated to preventing and investigating fraud at all levels. ​​​​​​​​"
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
PRL
Posts: 607
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 9:14pm
Location: Richmond upon Thames

Re: Why long prison sentences are not the answer

Post by PRL »

[XAP]Bob wrote:
Thermostat9 wrote:*I like this one! It would be like shooting fish in a barrel in most of our towns and cities too. :D

[youtube]lEM52Cvxmq8[/youtube]


Shooting fish in a barrel would be hard compared with this...

I particularity like the last one...


In this country I believe an UNMARKED police MCist would not be able to stop the cars.
beardy
Posts: 3382
Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: Why long prison sentences are not the answer

Post by beardy »

He flashes some blue lights, I have been stopped a few times by unmarked cars in the UK in that manner.
PRL
Posts: 607
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 9:14pm
Location: Richmond upon Thames

Re: Why long prison sentences are not the answer

Post by PRL »

beardy wrote:He flashes some blue lights, I have been stopped a few times by unmarked cars in the UK in that manner.


Granted the car was unmarked wasn't the driver in uniform ? That would be a bit of a give-away on a (motor) bike.
irc
Posts: 5192
Joined: 3 Dec 2008, 2:22pm
Location: glasgow

Re: Why long prison sentences are not the answer

Post by irc »

pete75 wrote:[The New York Police Department runs on a budget of about £3 billion a year, the Met on £4 billion. NYPD has 34,500 front line officers and the Met 31,500. It would seem NYPD is somewhat more efficiently run.


NYPD budget 2014 was 4.6Bn. The MET was 3.6Bn Is the MET more efficient than we thought?

http://council.nyc.gov/downloads/pdf/bu ... police.pdf

http://www.metpolicecareers.co.uk/comma ... o_pack.pdf
User avatar
[XAP]Bob
Posts: 19793
Joined: 26 Sep 2008, 4:12pm

Re: Why long prison sentences are not the answer

Post by [XAP]Bob »

Is New York the same size/population as the met?

does ammo cost more over there?
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way. No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse.
There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Vorpal
Moderator
Posts: 20700
Joined: 19 Jan 2009, 3:34pm
Location: Not there ;)

Re: Why long prison sentences are not the answer

Post by Vorpal »

They aren't comparable. Private police forces provide much more policing, and have more police powers in the USA than in the UK. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_po ... ted_States

Also, NYC has a huge volunteer police force, called the Auxiliary Police.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
thirdcrank
Posts: 36776
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Why long prison sentences are not the answer

Post by thirdcrank »

Taking this back to the thread title, there's a view (which I've mentioned before on this forum and possibly on this thread) that a public expectation of severe punishment of those convicted is a sign that the criminal justice system as a whole isn't working. Any policing system can only be a reflection of the criminal justice system. To me, the obvious place to look for a better way is Europe. That idea gets a bad press, literally, because rhetoric rules. (OK)
Post Reply