Advance stop line being ignored

[blackbike]

ASLs and their reserved space for bikes have always been a waste of time in my opinion.

(Most of my cycling is country lanes without ASLs but) when I come across ASLs they make no different to me. I always keep my position in the traffic in primary position. So if I happen to be "at the front" I will be in the ASL zone. But if there is one or more cars in front of me I don't pass them (neither side) to get to the ASL area - mainly as I think that if the lights changed whilst I was moving to the ASL area I would be in a difficult/dangerous position (inside or outside vehicles where the drivers may not have seen you in their mirrors and more focused on getting across the lights as quickly and as fast as possible.

When I do happen to be at the front in the ASL area, it actually makes no difference as were there no ASL then I would still be at the front of the queue, in the middle of the lane, completely blocking all cars behind me in the same lane.

So, having never done any bike training, am I doing this wrong or badly ?

Ian

I think you've just found out how useless ASL areas are. They were mostly painted at the same time as all the equally useless bike lanes, and probably with as little thought as to their usefulness.

I've also noticed that when roads are resurfaced they are usually not reinstated.

[[XAP]Bob]

You just don't find them at the time thy're useful.

I pass a line of traffic (several light cycles worth) and enter the ASL from the idiotic feeder lane (generally cutting between two vehicles at the front of the queue to get to that). This saves me several minutes at various light controlled junctions...

[Bicycler]

If traffic is heavy and slow moving then they can be useful. If the traffic is relatively free flowing and the cars you pass are only going to repass you as after the lights change then there doesn't seem much of a point. Queue length is also an issue. My own rule is not to filter if I will be able to pass through the junction on the next cycle if I remain in the queue

[mike_dowler]

For me one of the main benefits is to avoid sitting breathing in exhaust fumes while I wait for the lights to change. That is why I get cross when a moped rider decides he should be able to join us.

[drossall]

For the last month, I've been riding from Finsbury Park to work at Angel, my first experience of London commuting. Going home, I generally go down the hill to Kings Cross because the direct train doesn't stop at Finsbury Park, and, unlike the other direction, for half the distance the road is only a bus/cycle lane, with other traffic diverted by another road. And I can go "Wheeeeee!"

This involves loads of ASLs. Yes, there's encroachment. At Angel, most cyclists go up the outside to the lights and thence into the box. However, they are undoubtedly an advantage for cyclists, both in terms of time and in terms of placing you out of harms way in front of, rather than squeezed alongside, cars.

[kwackers]

For me one of the main benefits is to avoid sitting breathing in exhaust fumes while I wait for the lights to change. That is why I get cross when a moped rider decides he should be able to join us.

One of the advantages of a motorcycle is being able to get to the front of the queue - once there you want to make sure you're in front of vehicles for pretty much the same reason you do on a bicycle - to prevent them doing anything stupid.
It's not just cyclists that get killed by drivers at lights, motorcyclists do too.

[pete75]

For me one of the main benefits is to avoid sitting breathing in exhaust fumes while I wait for the lights to change. That is why I get cross when a moped rider decides he should be able to join us.

One of the advantages of a motorcycle is being able to get to the front of the queue - once there you want to make sure you're in front of vehicles for pretty much the same reason you do on a bicycle - to prevent them doing anything stupid.
It's not just cyclists that get killed by drivers at lights, motorcyclists do too.

This thread is about motor vehicles illegally crossing the ASL. It's no more legal for a motorcyclist to do so than a car driver.

[[XAP]Bob]

For me one of the main benefits is to avoid sitting breathing in exhaust fumes while I wait for the lights to change. That is why I get cross when a moped rider decides he should be able to join us.

One of the advantages of a motorcycle is being able to get to the front of the queue - once there you want to make sure you're in front of vehicles for pretty much the same reason you do on a bicycle - to prevent them doing anything stupid.
It's not just cyclists that get killed by drivers at lights, motorcyclists do too.

This thread is about motor vehicles illegally crossing the ASL. It's no more legal for a motorcyclist to do so than a car driver.

True, but I object significantly less (depending on the manner in which they do so) since they have the same basic problem that ASLs are designed to solve, and they don't block the whole thing.

[mjr]

But if there is one or more cars in front of me I don't pass them (neither side) to get to the ASL area - mainly as I think that if the lights changed whilst I was moving to the ASL area I would be in a difficult/dangerous position (inside or outside vehicles where the drivers may not have seen you in their mirrors and more focused on getting across the lights as quickly and as fast as possible.

It's easy to think that, but it's almost always fairly easy to move into the gaps that open up between motor vehicles as they start pulling away. The vehicles behind usually will have seen you because a bicycle overtaking them sticks out as unusual, but a shoulder-check and eye contact before moving across seems like a good idea. This filtering is described in http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/insigh ... g-part-2-0 and has been discussed on this forum many times like in viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55010 and viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17708 along with a claim it's in Bikeability Level 3.

I almost always overtake on the right: I realise that most ASLs aren't yet marked to permit access from the right, but I usually can't see that when starting to overtake!

Sometimes I start doing this and discover there isn't an ASL. Then I wait a couple of cars back so I can move in more easily. Whether or not I move up when I know there isn't an ASL depends very much on the junction: there's a right turn off the A149 where I never do it, but if I'm going straight on at the same junction, then I do.

Also, we're talking about a few seconds at the start of the green light when this fiddly moment can occur, in a lights cycle which can be minutes long. It doesn't happen all that often.

But if you're not comfortable with it, feel free to wait in line. It only really makes a difference to you.

If the traffic is relatively free flowing and the cars you pass are only going to repass you as after the lights change then there doesn't seem much of a point.

As others have said, I think there's still a point in being away from the exhaust (if waiting in line, I leave a pretty long 2-4m gap in front of me for that reason), plus I often accelerate away from a stop faster than many cars with their clunky gearboxes, and if I'm in front then I don't have to deal with the frequent bonkers unsignalled turns.

[NUKe]

There is no offence for a car stopping in the ASL, they are advisory only. The CTC, I believe were campaiging to change this, but there currently is no offence of stoppping in the ASL box. it may be discourtious but its not against the law
from the CTC campaign
"■The Government should pursue moves to clarify and amend the legislation covering cyclists’ access to and use of ASLs; and make civil enforcement of ASLs possible."
found here
http://www.ctc.org.uk/campaigning/views ... lines-asls

[Bicycler]

If the traffic is relatively free flowing and the cars you pass are only going to repass you as after the lights change then there doesn't seem much of a point.

As others have said, I think there's still a point in being away from the exhaust (if waiting in line, I leave a pretty long 2-4m gap in front of me for that reason), plus I often accelerate away from a stop faster than many cars with their clunky gearboxes, and if I'm in front then I don't have to deal with the frequent bonkers unsignalled turns.

It does mean a few extra vehicles behind you who absolutely have to get in front ASAP. I'm less worried about idiocy from those in front than idiocy from those behind or to the side of me.

ASLs are not advisory. The first line is mandatory (for motors) in the same way as the second line or any other stop line at a traffic signal. Motors must stop at the first line if an amber or red light shows if it is possible to do so safely.

[Psamathe]

If the traffic is relatively free flowing and the cars you pass are only going to repass you as after the lights change then there doesn't seem much of a point.

As others have said, I think there's still a point in being away from the exhaust (if waiting in line, I leave a pretty long 2-4m gap in front of me for that reason), plus I often accelerate away from a stop faster than many cars with their clunky gearboxes, and if I'm in front then I don't have to deal with the frequent bonkers unsignalled turns.

It does mean a few extra vehicles behind you who absolutely have to get in front ASAP. I'm less worried about idiocy from those in front than idiocy from those behind or to the side of me.

On quieter junctions or lights, when there might be just one or two cars behind me, I will tend to pull over to the curb and when the lights change gesture for the cars to go ahead of me, and I'll follow once they are past. I only do it if there are one or two cars; it hardly delays me at all and means that (as you say), I don't have car(s) trying to pass me from the moment the light change. Same at junctions. I'd rather the cars were clear ahead than getting impatient behind then doing all sorts of daft/dangerous overtakes.

But if it's busier then I just become another vehicle in the queue.

Ian

[mjr]

It does mean a few extra vehicles behind you who absolutely have to get in front ASAP. I'm less worried about idiocy from those in front than idiocy from those behind or to the side of me.

I feel there are fewer Must Get In Front nutters than careless turners. Also, in the urban areas where ASLs appear on my rides (King's Lynn, Cambridge, London), most of the cars are simply unable to overtake because I've caught the back of the next queue before they are close enough to try... or in the case of Cambridge, I'm probably in a bus or cycle lane on the other side of the junction.

I agree that ASLs are not advisory. The CTC call is probably because only police can enforce them, the "it wasn't red when I crossed the first line" defence is annoying and only being able to enter from the left edge is dangerous.

[Vorpal]

I don't like ASLs and seldom use them. When I filter, I usually do so on the outside, where it is illegal to cross the first stop line on red I prefer to reinsert myself in the flow of traffic (in primary position) a few cars behind the stop line and/or when the queue is stopping. It may be a few second slower, but it is generally less problematic.

Tehre have been a number of previous threads on ASLs viewtopic.php?f=6&t=80699 is one that also refers to others.

[kwackers]

This thread is about motor vehicles illegally crossing the ASL. It's no more legal for a motorcyclist to do so than a car driver.

That's right and as a cyclist it's illegal of me to pass the stop line - yet I do it pretty much every time if there isn't an ASL because it's much safer, just as I'll move past the second stop line if the ASL is occupied when I arrive.
And for the same reason I'll continue doing it on my motorcycle - something I was doing decades before someone decided that a bit of extra space was a good idea.

IMO it should also be available for motorcycles too.