Cars doing 75mph past a primary school.

kwackers
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Re: Cars doing 75mph past a primary school.

Post by kwackers »

Audax67 wrote:Good case for sump-buster speed-bumps.

Should make speed bumps using non-Newtonian fluids. Roll over them slowly and they just flatten. Hit them hard and you become a space craft...
AlaninWales
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Joined: 26 Oct 2012, 1:47pm

Re: Cars doing 75mph past a primary school.

Post by AlaninWales »

Bonefishblues wrote:
Audax67 wrote:Good case for sump-buster speed-bumps.

Or these, perhaps?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Vanco ... B640%3B347

Love it ... except :

Cue excuse #1025 "I couldn't help driving into the kid in the road, because I thought she was just one of those trick 'road safety' paintings" :(
snibgo
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Re: Cars doing 75mph past a primary school.

Post by snibgo »

Psamathe wrote:And they managed to reduce the average vehicle speed on the road by increasing the speed limit from 30 to 40 ! (yes, rduce the average speed by increasing the speed limit).

Quite possibly. The converse is used on congested motorways, where a speed limit is imposed (and enforced), and this increases the average speed.
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Cars doing 75mph past a primary school.

Post by thirdcrank »

Read the link in the OP and there's no mention of the results of any enforcement. (The picture illustrating the article showing the screen of a hand-held speed gun is just a bit of editorial creativity.)

I fancy that's what happened here is that concerned locals have complained and the so-called Road Safety Partnership :lol: has dome some monitoring rather than any actual enforcement and now thinks a shock horror press release should do the trick. :evil:
FatBat
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Joined: 20 Feb 2007, 1:06pm

Re: Cars doing 75mph past a primary school.

Post by FatBat »

kwackers wrote:
Audax67 wrote:Good case for sump-buster speed-bumps.

Should make speed bumps using non-Newtonian fluids. Roll over them slowly and they just flatten. Hit them hard and you become a space craft...

Where I used to work made these - they were very proud of them and some were installed somewhere in London. I did ask what happened when one cycled over them, and the answer was that they would not flatten! I don't think they were ever approved for use on public highways.

http://www.theengineer.co.uk/news/inflatable-rubber-policeman-gives-drivers-the-hump/273830.article
Chris the Sheep
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Re: Cars doing 75mph past a primary school.

Post by Chris the Sheep »

As another poster noted, this is at the end of a long straight stretch of road - and apart from one other village (Sturton by Stow) it's NSL. I grew up in that area and as a young driver used this road frequently - 70mph was about as much as my FIAT would do, but given the sight lines, lack of traffic and general quality of the road I actually don't think 70mph is a problem over much of its length. I wouldn't have gone at that speed inside the 30 limit even then, but knowing the road well I can see how people get tempted - and feel safe doing it. (I think one or two drivers have crashed into the gates at the level crossing, though my memory's a bit vague on that one).

I left Gainsborough in 1983 - what astonishes me is that NOTHING seems to have changed in the intervening 30 years. The speed limit signs are in the same place, there are no speed cameras, chicanes, nothing - based on where I live now (Lancashire) I'm really surprised by that. But I don't think a 20mph limit would help here (thinking about it I'm not a supporter of '20mph outside schools' anyway, as it sends a signal that it's OK to go faster everywhere else). This speed limit needs to be made more 'solid', and this is NOT a busy road so a chicane or even a traffic light which shows red to any driver who approaches too fast would help.


(The road, by the way, is Roman in origin - connecting Ermine Street with a ford across the Trent at Littleborough)
iviehoff
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Re: Cars doing 75mph past a primary school.

Post by iviehoff »

Pete Owens wrote:
iviehoff wrote:
Lance Dopestrong wrote:Why does anyone need to drive at 75mph anywhere, never mind past a school?

Few things we do in life are completely necessary. A lot of driving takes place at 75mph on motorways, and few people worry about that very much. Nevertheless there are reasons for speed limits in particular places. In the case of schools, there is a case for arrangements for temporary limits at particular times, which the school staff turn on and off with a key.


Oh dear - obviously the sort of person who drives absolutely everywhere so the only people who he gives a stuff about are other drivers - everybody else is simply expected to keep out of his way. In his world view the only legitimate pedestrians are children who's parents have driven them to school but have to park on the other side of the road. He is prepared to slow down for these children at tightly restricted times and places because they are passengers of motorists.

What about children who walk or cycle all the way from their home to school? (basically ANY road in a built up area will be part of a school catcment)
What about children going to places other than school at other times of the day or night - to brownies, to the shops, to the swimming pool, to the park, to church, to the theatre, to the bus stop, to a friends house... ?
What about adults - or are we supposed to understand how dangerous you are and scuttle out of your way?
What about the blind or disabled?
What about us cyclists (this is after all a cycle forum)?

I argue from the perspective of what is realistic and publicly acceptable, and likely in practice to work, not self-interest. In a typical week I make 20 cycle trips, 10 train trips and 1 car trip. I live on a straight road on the edge of a village, close to a NSL-30mph boundary, that cars are inclined to speed on. So I am not remotely the person you make me out to be.

The arguments you make do not address the specific points I am making. What about all those things? Well what indeed, but they are not within the scope of this thread. You appear to be arguing for a general low speed limit environment everywhere any vulnerable person might ever be. Although it is not the subject of this thread, I will point out that in practical terms such widespread low speed limits are something that do not currently have widespread political support. That is a point that is quite independent of my own views on what would be a good idea.

In my post, I was talking about the acceptability and practical effectiveness of 20mph speed limits outside schools in a country where speed limits are generally 30mph in built-up areas.

There's a village I often visit that has a school on its edge with a straight road beyond, and which has applied belt and braces with a 24-365 20mph speed limit and traffic calming measures outside the school. A 30mph speed limit applies to the rest of the village. This includes the road between the school and the village centre, even though the road is built-up, narrow and does not have a continuous footway, and thus is likely to have children frequently walking in the road at diverse periods. The 24-365 aspect of the 20mph speed limit is much disregarded outside school hours. When you try to discuss it with people, those in favour are inclined to say "well there is a side-turning with poor visibility just beyond the school, and there's been quite a few accidents there". So in fact they don't actually think the school itself is worth mentioning when you want to know why you have to drive there at 20mph at 11pm in August.
Pete Owens
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Re: Cars doing 75mph past a primary school.

Post by Pete Owens »

There is overwhelming political support for city wide 20mph limits - including from drivers. Councilors all over the country are attempting to introduce it.
The resistance comes from the police who can't be buttocked with traffic enforcement, and from council officers who have been engrained in the culture of moving motor traffic as fast as possible for so long that theycan't see the need for change.
Vorpal
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Re: Cars doing 75mph past a primary school.

Post by Vorpal »

I generally find drivers in Norway to be slower and less aggressive. They take more care around vulnerable users. While I do get honks and gestures for not using the path, or for being too far out in the lane :roll: I also get plenty of space.

However, there is a gradually increasing school traffic issue. Mostly from parents who drop their children off because it's on the way to work, or whatever. While the majority of Norwegian children still walk to school (by themselves :shock: ), the number of cars pulling up outside of the school near my house has increased in the last couple of years.

I was quite surprised to hear one of the parents from the parent-teacher organsiation say that the school had applied to close the road on school days between 8:00 and 8:35 (there isn't as much of a problem at home time). When I asked, I was told that this was to allow the children to cross safely, and discourage families from driving to school.

I don't yet know if this is just a sort of bargaining tool, or if it will actually happen.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom
thirdcrank
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Re: Cars doing 75mph past a primary school.

Post by thirdcrank »

Vorpal wrote: ... I was quite surprised to hear one of the parents from the parent-teacher organsiation say that the school had applied to close the road on school days between 8:00 and 8:35 (there isn't as much of a problem at home time). When I asked, I was told that this was to allow the children to cross safely, and discourage families from driving to school. ...


From the OP link:

Teacher Naomi Maguire said: "It has always been a safety issue whenever we walk the children to a bus - the older ones on the outside, the youngest on the inside and the adult almost like a human shield."
iviehoff
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Re: Cars doing 75mph past a primary school.

Post by iviehoff »

Pete Owens wrote:There is overwhelming political support for city wide 20mph limits - including from drivers.

Citation needed.
andrewk
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Re: Cars doing 75mph past a primary school.

Post by andrewk »

Pete Owens wrote:There is overwhelming political support for city wide 20mph limits - including from drivers. Councilors all over the country are attempting to introduce it.
The resistance comes from the police who can't be buttocked with traffic enforcement, and from council officers who have been engrained in the culture of moving motor traffic as fast as possible for so long that theycan't see the need for change.


What is the source for your contentious claim of overwhelming support for city wide 20mph limits?
thirdcrank
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Re: Cars doing 75mph past a primary school.

Post by thirdcrank »

From Bicycler's link:

Professor Alan Tapp and Professor Clive Nancarrow of UWE Bristol's Social Marketing Centre have analysed the results of a recent YouGov survey of Great Britain and concluded that although support is strong for 20mph limits in residential areas and busy streets, enforcement by the police will be needed to confront the driving of a minority.

A recent YouGov survey of Great Britain has found a clear majority of support for 20mph speed limits in residential streets (65% support or strongly support) and busy shopping areas and busy streets (72%). When asked for reasons to support 20mph limits, perhaps not surprisingly road safety and children's safety are where the public's collective priority currently lies, with other reasons - such as making our streets more pleasant to live in, encouraging more walking and cycling, reducing noise and improving the quality of life receiving less support.

With one-fifth of the UK already within 20mph limits or with firm plans to do so, and more large urban areas to follow suit, these findings are encouraging for local authorities wishing to promote the idea of reduced speeds in busy urban settings. On the issue of the level of support amongst different demographics Professor Clive Nancarrow of UWE-Bristol's Social Marketing Centre said, “We found a higher level of support for 20mph in residential areas amongst women and older age groups. Interestingly there was also an association with voting intention, with a higher level of support for 20mph limits amongst Green (75%) and Labour voters (70%) and a lower level of support amongst Conservatives (60%), UKIP (60%) and Lib-Dems (63%).”

But will motorists obey the new limits?

Professor Alan Tapp, also of UWE Bristol, reports a divide in attitudes. “While a majority of drivers, 64%, agree that they 'will be careful to observe new 20 mph limits wherever they are', nevertheless a minority, 31%, say 'If a 20mph speed limit is introduced, I may not stick to it'. Other data may provide clues as to why this divide exists. For instance almost three quarters (73%) of adults in GB agree that breaking speed limits is not acceptable in most circumstances and nearly two thirds (59%) of GB adults think most people drive too quickly. But on the other hand 28% of drivers agreed 'I use my own judgement, not speed limits, to decide on my speed on the road', while 49% thought 'It is just too difficult to stay at 20mph'. Almost a third of people (30%) thought that 20mph is an example of a nanny state; and a small minority (7%) demonstrated their libertarian beliefs agreeing that 'I think people should be free to drive at whatever speed they want to.

“Apart from these divides in attitude, local authorities and 20mph supporters need to also be aware of a possible 'vicious circle' effect, in which those who want to comply with the new limits may be put off from doing so because they are affected by the driving behaviour of others: 37% of drivers said they 'tend to drive at the speed of others on the road'. This 'copycat effect' may be compounded by a feeling amongst the large majority - 71% of drivers – who agreed that 'people will ignore 20mph limits because they don't see themselves getting caught by the police'. That's why clear and unequivocal police support for 20mph limits would be very welcome for those who want a new culture of driving at slower speeds in built up areas.”
pete75
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Re: Cars doing 75mph past a primary school.

Post by pete75 »

It's Lincolnshire. That's how people drive here. Always have for as long as I can remember and always will unless something drastic happens, which is highly unlikely.
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
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