Appeals against lenient sentences

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thirdcrank
Posts: 36780
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Appeals against lenient sentences

Post by thirdcrank »

(I hope this won't start a Dave Lee Travis discussion.)

There's yet another sad post on the "lenient sentence" thread. :(

viewtopic.php?p=825553#p825553

It's now possible for the Attorney General to refer an unduly lenient sentence to the Court of Appeal for review. It would be nice to be able to believe that this was all part of a reasoned process but I fear that it is just part of the spin factory. This is from the BBC News www about the recent conviction of Dave Lee Travis.

The attorney general's office said four people had complained that the sentence was "unduly lenient".

It will now consider whether to refer the sentence to the court of appeal


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29415240

They've had complaints from four people so that merits a press release which actually says nothing more than they are thinking about it, but it provides an opportunity to print a pic of the defendant appearing to bare his fangs. :roll:

Perhaps some complaints from disgruntled cyclists whenever there's an unduly lenient sentence following a fatal crash might have them thinking about that a too.
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Appeals against lenient sentences

Post by Psamathe »

thirdcrank wrote:(I hope this won't start a Dave Lee Travis discussion.)

There's yet another sad post on the "lenient sentence" thread. :(

viewtopic.php?p=825553#p825553

It's now possible for the Attorney General to refer an unduly lenient sentence to the Court of Appeal for review. It would be nice to be able to believe that this was all part of a reasoned process but I fear that it is just part of the spin factory. This is from the BBC News www about the recent conviction of Dave Lee Travis.

The attorney general's office said four people had complained that the sentence was "unduly lenient".

It will now consider whether to refer the sentence to the court of appeal


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29415240

They've had complaints from four people so that merits a press release which actually says nothing more than they are thinking about it, but it provides an opportunity to print a pic of the defendant appearing to bare his fangs. :roll:

Perhaps some complaints from disgruntled cyclists whenever there's an unduly lenient sentence following a fatal crash might have them thinking about that a too.

Maybe more significant from a report of the same news but in the Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/sep/29/dave-lee-travis-indecent-assault-sentence-reviewed):
Any member of the public is able to complain about sentences handed down in England and Wales using the unduly lenient scheme.


So it is not just a matter of particular high profile cases (necessarily) but sounds like there is a formal scheme setup; so presumably a case is considered by it's merits rather than strength of numbers complaining.

Ian
thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Appeals against lenient sentences

Post by thirdcrank »

Soryy if I didn't make it clear: there is a formal scheme in that the Attorney General who is a politician but also the govt's senior law officer can in effect appeal against what he considers to be an unduly lenient sentence. This is a relatively new power. I suppose it depends on POV whether a public outcry being the trigger amounts to democracy in action or a sort of online mob rule.

All I'm suggesting is that instead of bemoaning sentencing to the converted on a cycling forum, the complaints might be better directed towards the AG. As an aside, it was only recently that I discovered that although the AG is always a QC, that's just an honorary honour that goes with the job. In other words, the AG of the day is appointed because of their position in the govt of the day, rather than any pre-eminence as a lawyer.
Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Appeals against lenient sentences

Post by Psamathe »

thirdcrank wrote:Soryy if I didn't make it clear: there is a formal scheme in that the Attorney General who is a politician but also the govt's senior law officer can in effect appeal against what he considers to be an unduly lenient sentence. This is a relatively new power. I suppose it depends on POV whether a public outcry being the trigger amounts to democracy in action or a sort of online mob rule.

All I'm suggesting is that instead of bemoaning sentencing to the converted on a cycling forum, the complaints might be better directed towards the AG. As an aside, it was only recently that I discovered that although the AG is always a QC, that's just an honorary honour that goes with the job. In other words, the AG of the day is appointed because of their position in the govt of the day, rather than any pre-eminence as a lawyer.

It's a bit better than "complaining" to the AG. You actually refer a case to the AG, who considers it and may then decide to (or not to) appeal the sentence.

However, the offences that the scheme covers are "limited" and would probably exclude most of the "lenient sentences" discussed on this forum.

The scheme:
https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-low-crown-court-sentence
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/unduly_lenient_sentences/

The offences covered by the scheme:
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/unduly_lenient_sentences/#b02

Ian
AlaninWales
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Joined: 26 Oct 2012, 1:47pm

Re: Appeals against lenient sentences

Post by AlaninWales »

https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-low-crown-court-sentence

Attorney Generals Office wrote:Only certain types of case can be reviewed, including:

murder
rape
robbery
some child sex crimes and child cruelty
some serious fraud
some serious drug crimes
crimes committed because of the victim’s race or religion

Anyone can ask for a sentence to be reviewed - they don’t have to be involved in the case.

Only 1 person needs to ask for a sentence to be reviewed.
How to complain

Contact the Attorney General’s Office as soon as possible after the sentence is passed. The time limit for making a complaint is 28 days after sentencing.

Provide as much information as you can about the case, eg the:

name of the person who got the sentence
date the sentence was given
court where the case was held
crime committed

Attorney General’s Office
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov.uk
correspondence@attorneygeneral.gsi.gov.uk
Telephone: 020 7271 2492
Monday to Friday, 9am to 5pm
Find out about call charges

The Attorney General has 28 days to review a sentence and make a decision. Once the case has been reviewed, it may be sent to the Court of Appeal.
beardy
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Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: Appeals against lenient sentences

Post by beardy »

The Dave Lee Travis case doesnt fall in any of those categories.

It says "including" not "only".
thirdcrank
Posts: 36780
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Appeals against lenient sentences

Post by thirdcrank »

Psamathe wrote: ... However, the offences that the scheme covers are "limited" and would probably exclude most of the "lenient sentences" discussed on this forum. ...


Some useful links in there, but I think you are drawing the wrong conclusion. The most obvious point is that causing death by dangerous driving (S 1 Road Traffic Act 1988) is triable only on indictment and so comes within the scheme.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/53/schedule/2

Unfortunately, my link, to the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 Schedule 2 Part I, which has a table setting out mode of trial appears not to have been fully updated to take account of the amendments to the Road Traffic Act 1988 in respect of the various other causing death by driving offences. (I can only find Causing death by careless driving while under the influence contrary to s 3A of the RTA 1988. ie no mention of the offences under s 2B causing death by careless driving or 2ZB causing death by driving when unlicensed, disqualified or uninsured.)

As an aside and with regard to my comments about the political nature of this, it's interesting the see the list of sexual offences which have been included by statutory instrument in this scheme. That's not intended to detract from the seriousness of those offences, just a comment about how they come to be included.
=========================================================================================================

PS. I realised very early in my career that there's little point getting hot under the collar about sentencing. In most of the discussions about it on here I've tried to point to things like sentencing guidelines which explain what's happened. One issue that repeatedly gets up my nose, however, is the frequency of discounts for "remorse" when no remorse has been shown before the speech in mitigation. There was one appalling (IMO) case where a defendant who had pleaded not guilty was given a non-custodial sentence partly in recognition of his "remorse." On reflection, I now wish that I'd complained about this at that time, rather than hammering on about it ever since. While searching for the original thread in the below link, I found a later post where I said that the AG should have been straight to the appeal court. I now realise I should have pointed him/her in the right direction, although there's no reason to suppose they would have listened.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=60597&hilit=remorse
reohn2
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Re: Appeals against lenient sentences

Post by reohn2 »

Where's the CTC/Britsh Cycling when they're needed?
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Psamathe
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Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Appeals against lenient sentences

Post by Psamathe »

thirdcrank wrote:
Psamathe wrote: ... However, the offences that the scheme covers are "limited" and would probably exclude most of the "lenient sentences" discussed on this forum. ...


Some useful links in there, but I think you are drawing the wrong conclusion.

Quite possible as I am no expert on the matter and my thoughts were from not too extensive internet research.

Ian
thirdcrank
Posts: 36780
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Appeals against lenient sentences

Post by thirdcrank »

As this thread has re-surfaced, I''ll summarise the position as I see it:

If any member of the public believes the sentence for certain offences - including causing death by dangerous driving - is excessively lenient, then they can complain within 28 days to the Attorney General's Office.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... als-office

More detail further up the thread from AlaninWales.

NB Causing death by dangerous driving is covered by virtue of its being an indictable offence.
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