Cheap(ish) strong wheels - anything else to consider?

[ross980]

I'm after some new wheels for my Ridgeback Voyage as the original back wheel is buckled and not worth repairing. I also want a hub dynamo for the front and have been impressed with the basic Shimano dynamo hub I had on my previous bike. I only use the bike for commuting (~10 miles/day). My key requirement for the wheels is strength, then price. I'm not bothered by weight.

I'm looking at these hand built wheels from Spa - they're probably a bit more than I want to spend but I figure if they are more robust I get a bit longer out of them they will be worth the outlay.

Rear: LX hub with Sputnik rim (is the LX hub worth the extra £14 over Deore?)
http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s176p1342

Front: Shimano N30 Dynamo hub with Sputnik rim
http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s170p1794

Any comments or recommendations before I hit the buy button?

Thanks

[georgew]

The general consensus seems to be that the combination of Sputnik rims and a Spa build is pretty well bombproof.

[gregoryoftours]

Yes one of my friends has a front spa shimano dynohub/sputnik wheel, no problems with it and bombproof. I'd also splash out the extra for the lx hub, I'm not sure about exact models/years but most that I've looked at the lx are sealed better than the deore.

[Samuel D]

If it came down to an LX rear hub or a fancier front hub (DH-3N80), I think I’d opt for the DH-3N80 and ‘cheap out’ on the rear hub. The DH-3N80 has lower lights-off drag than the DH-3N30. Though that might not matter on your commute.

[The fat commuter]

I got the cheaper hub and sputnik rim as a rear wheel when I realised that the wheel that came with my Ridgeback Speed couldn't take my weight (then about 17 st plus). The wheel's been great - very strong. It's done about 3,500 miles.

Two spoke nipples snapped but I think that that's because I didn't wash the salt off the rim as often as I should in winter.

The braking surface has worn down quite significantly on mine - but I think that that's because I used to ride virtually all the way into work 'on the brakes' as it's downhill and very busy. I also ride in all weathers so the wet makes a nice grinding paste on the rims. I now do a longer route where I hardly need to use my brakes and the rims are holding up.

When I come to replace the wheel, I wouldn't hesitate to get the same - or maybe a slightly lighter rim. I know that you said that you're not that bothered about the weight but this wheel was heavier that the original wheel on the bike and it does feel slower. I suppose having extra weight in a component that is constantly accelerating and decelerating due to its circular motion is going to be felt.

Regarding the front wheel, as that doesn't need quite as much strength as was going to look at a slightly cheaper wheel than the ones from Spa. I am also thinking of sticking a dynamo setup on the bike just so that the lights 'are there'.

[mercalia]

if u get a hand built wheel ( from spa ) tell the builder your weight and what sort of road conditions u intend to use it on

[TrevA]

The general consensus seems to be that the combination of Sputnik rims and a Spa build is pretty well bombproof.

Erm....No it isn't. My Spa built rear Deore/Sputnik wheel shed 4 NDS spokes in the first few months. I believe this is because they use thinner spokes on the Non-drive side. You'd expect drive side spokes to go, but not non-drive side. I know the theory is that NDS spokes are under less stress and can therefore be thinner, but the theory doesn't seem to work in practice, not for me anyway. The replacement wheel I bought from SJS Cycles (Deore/Mavic A319) has no such problems and, guess what, they don't use thinner spokes on the NDS.

[The fat commuter]

^^

When I got mine built, I contacted them and advised them of my weight (17st plus as well as commuting luggage) and the fact that I'd be bouncing down the bumpy roads of Sheffield. I'm sure that they built it with the same thickness spokes on both sides.

[TrevA]

Good advice, as it seems their standard wheels are only suitable for Bantamweights.

[irc]

Good advice, as it seems their standard wheels are only suitable for Bantamweights.

My 2009 standard Spa Xt hub Sputnik rim rear wheel has carried my 17 stone across the USA 3 times with a camping touring load. After about 9000 miles I needed to tight a spoke to correct a tiny wobble in the rim.

But then did the Spa wheelbuilder not retire a year or two ago? Maybe current wheels are not as good? Recent experiences anyone?

[mercalia]

I had a pair of wheels built there in the last year but not same time so maybe not have been the same builder - the basic Sputnik/Deore. I too weigh between 16 & 17 stone. told them that & would be loaded front and rear. I think they maybe make the spokes tighter for the bigger person rather than use plain guage. The rear seems very tight using my Park guage, I mentioned this in a previous post & Colin531 thought my results impossible. The nds on my rear is defintely butted down to 2 mm I think at the nipple but some where around 1.8mm in the middle.Whether my tension guage is accurate or not it did show a great consistency of tension. I dont do a lot of miles but the ones they have done have been tough ones off road at times and on the crippled London roads ( we have some very bad ones where I live, worse than many off road tracks with rippled tarmac and cracks and crevaces!) The only issue I had was with the more recent front one, some of the spokes entered the nipples at an angle, ie the nipples couldn't angle enough in the rim. I get the impression this has lessened over time as wheels have settled down ( maybe I was wrong, I always see faults when I am spending lots of money) I understand this maybe a matter of variable quality of the Sputnik rims these days. In practice I have no complaints. I think if you ask they will use what ever spokes you want - so go for Sapim strong both sides on the rear wheel? ( I did ask about this)

I cant see that using butted spokes is the issue with them breaking unless they break at the middle where they are thinner? at the business ends they are the standard 2mm or better? Sounds to me like some bad spokes & bad luck in you getting them? Or it could have been the spoke/nipple angle I referred to above ( eg subpar rim ) leading to the spokes breaking ( at the nipple)?. I think the point in using butted spokes is that u use a higher tension for a given effect so that they wont loosen so readily, when the tension decreases at the contact with the road? I might add the original Mavic X138 rimmed wheels that my Dawes 1-Down came with used plain guage spokes 2mm and were always very true and quite circular & didn't experience any loosening with my weight ( I think )( the only trouble I had was the rims cracked, even then they were true lol) So the need for butted spokes maybe over stated?

[531colin]

The general consensus seems to be that the combination of Sputnik rims and a Spa build is pretty well bombproof.

Erm....No it isn't. My Spa built rear Deore/Sputnik wheel shed 4 NDS spokes in the first few months. I believe this is because they use thinner spokes on the Non-drive side. You'd expect drive side spokes to go, but not non-drive side. I know the theory is that NDS spokes are under less stress and can therefore be thinner, but the theory doesn't seem to work in practice, not for me anyway. The replacement wheel I bought from SJS Cycles (Deore/Mavic A319) has no such problems and, guess what, they don't use thinner spokes on the NDS.

what did Spa say about it?
....see the last post in this thread....http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7228&start=390

[TrevA]

The general consensus seems to be that the combination of Sputnik rims and a Spa build is pretty well bombproof.

Erm....No it isn't. My Spa built rear Deore/Sputnik wheel shed 4 NDS spokes in the first few months. I believe this is because they use thinner spokes on the Non-drive side. You'd expect drive side spokes to go, but not non-drive side. I know the theory is that NDS spokes are under less stress and can therefore be thinner, but the theory doesn't seem to work in practice, not for me anyway. The replacement wheel I bought from SJS Cycles (Deore/Mavic A319) has no such problems and, guess what, they don't use thinner spokes on the NDS.

what did Spa say about it?
....see the last post in this thread....http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7228&start=390

They said "Bring it in and we'll have a look", but I live 100 miles from Harrogate, so not so easy to do that. To be fair, it may have been a sub-standard batch of spokes.

However, I still question using thinner spokes on the NDS. What does that achieve? A bit of a weight saving but who is bothered about saving weight on a touring wheel. The wheel had been exclusively used for commuting, carrying perhaps 10lbs of luggage on a 10 mile round trip daily. Surely, a touring wheel should be built to take a lot of weight. Others experiences may vary, of course, but buying from Spa is not an absolute guarantee that you'll get a bombproof wheel.

[georgew]

"TrevA"[/quote]




However, I still question using thinner spokes on the NDS. What does that achieve? A bit of a weight saving but who is bothered about saving weight on a touring wheel. The wheel had been exclusively used for commuting, carrying perhaps 10lbs of luggage on a 10 mile round trip daily. Surely, a touring wheel should be built to take a lot of weight. Others experiences may vary, of course, but buying from Spa is not an absolute guarantee that you'll get a bombproof wheel.[/quote]

If you think that butted spokes are used to save weight then it might be that you are not totally conversant with the principles of wheelbuilding....just saying.

[Des49]

However, I still question using thinner spokes on the NDS. What does that achieve? A bit of a weight saving but who is bothered about saving weight on a touring wheel.

There is a view that a double butted spoke (ie thinner in the middle section) resists fatigue better than a stiffer plain gauge spoke. The latter may loosen off more during the rotation/stress cycle as the wheel revolves, leading to reduced fatigue life and even complete loss of tension if the nipple unscrews.

I personally prefer to build with DB spokes, but have had great long lasting wheels with plain gauge and extra thick spokes too. Good wheel building technique, especially stress relieving, seems to be the most vital requirement.

It is possible that your wheel had some bad spokes, where did they break? If anywhere except the elbow then the material may be at fault. Some Sapim spokes did have issues and Spa did use those, as per 531colin's link above it is more about how a problem is put right and it may be unfair to blame a wheelbuilder if the spokes themselves have come from a bad batch, even if this should be a very rare occurence.

(Note I have no affiliation to Spa, just been a happy mail order client for a fair number of years).