Surly Cross Check Project - Help, Advice, Suggestions pls!

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73Chaz
Posts: 66
Joined: 17 Aug 2015, 8:24pm

Surly Cross Check Project - Help, Advice, Suggestions pls!

Post by 73Chaz »

Hi all,

Further to my previous thread; I've now collected a second hand Cross Check frameset; this will be my first attempt at building a bike so all help, suggestions and advice will be really appreciated.

I aim to use this bike for short to medium length trips around town and into the country, including towpaths and bridleways but mainly on tarmac. I want to be able to carry small loads; maybe a handlebar bag, possibly a rack. Just enough to carry work stuff or pick up some shopping.

I would like the bike to be simple, fun to ride, robust, functional. My other bike is a titanium road bike so I am ok for fast and light when that is required.

I have lots of ideas which I will post as we go along, with some pictures.

I also have loads of questions:
What tools will I need?
How many different kinds of grease?
Road bike parts or mtb parts?
1x10?
Drops plus bar end shifter?
35c tyres?
V brakes, cantis or mini Vs? Which levers?
Wheels - 32 spoke or 36? Mavic a719 rims maybe?
Why aren't the rear drop outs vertical?
Is it silly to put a Brooks saddle on a bike you may leave chained up somewhere?

More to follow soon...

Thank you all in anticipation.
beardy
Posts: 3382
Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: Surly Cross Check Project - Help, Advice, Suggestions pl

Post by beardy »

The answers all interweave and feedback on each other rather than being able to make any decisions in isolation of the other factors. It is a matter of completing a jigsaw rather than picking the best individual components.

You have to decide which features of the bike are most important to you.

Eg, if you want to use STI shifters on a drop bar then you will have to make compromises with your choice of brakes.

A Brooks saddle may be a pain in the bum but it has saddle loops for hanging a voluminous saddlebag, if the frame is large enough.
beardy
Posts: 3382
Joined: 23 Feb 2010, 4:10pm

Re: Surly Cross Check Project - Help, Advice, Suggestions pl

Post by beardy »

Kicking off with a bit of my personal preferences, I would start with something like the set up on this bike.

http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... b0s21p2554

Though the Marathons would be replaced by Vittoria Hypers (37mm) and the JP400 by a Shimano UN55.

For light use a Tortec ultralight rack would be adequate, lighter and cheaper.
Brucey
Posts: 44517
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Surly Cross Check Project - Help, Advice, Suggestions pl

Post by Brucey »

73Chaz wrote:
1) What tools will I need?
2) How many different kinds of grease?
3)Road bike parts or mtb parts?
4) 1x10?
5) Drops plus bar end shifter?
6) 35c tyres?
7) V brakes, cantis or mini Vs? Which levers?
8 ) Wheels - 32 spoke or 36? Mavic a719 rims maybe?
9) Why aren't the rear drop outs vertical?
10) Is it silly to put a Brooks saddle on a bike you may leave chained up somewhere?

IMHO...
1) take a look in an Aldi toolkit; that lot, but better quality as needed.
2) anti seize (copper ease) plus stuff for bearings
3) road bike parts of course; its a kind of road bike...? :wink:
4) nah, 2x8... or an IGH perhaps...?
5) drops + whatever shifters you have to hand
6) why not?
7) cantis; it is a kind of cross bike...?
8 ) 32 front, 36 rear, whatever rims are strong enough
9) 'cos your frame is versatile... :roll:
10) yes.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Freddie
Posts: 2519
Joined: 12 Jan 2008, 12:01pm

Re: Surly Cross Check Project - Help, Advice, Suggestions pl

Post by Freddie »

73Chaz wrote:Is it silly to put a Brooks saddle on a bike you may leave chained up somewhere?
The natural follow up to this question being, is it silly to leave a Cross Check chained up somewhere? To which my answer would be, yes.
Merry_Wanderer
Posts: 1002
Joined: 31 Aug 2012, 9:33am
Location: North Leicestershire

Re: Surly Cross Check Project - Help, Advice, Suggestions pl

Post by Merry_Wanderer »

Funnily enough I have bought a 62cm Cross Check and will be building it up very soon. The parts I have gone for are V brakes, Deore LX; Tektro 520 brake levers on drop bars, Dura Ace bar end shifters, stronglight triple chainset in 46/34/24 with 11-32 cassette, XT front derailleur and Deore rear derailleur. Shimano N80 dynamo front hub to power a B&M Cyo frontlight. Tyres are 700 x 37 Vittoria Hypers. As i have yet to put it all together I hope it all works. My build is for Audax
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531colin
Posts: 16083
Joined: 4 Dec 2009, 6:56pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Surly Cross Check Project - Help, Advice, Suggestions pl

Post by 531colin »

The best (and easiest to live with) rim brakes are full-size Vee brakes.
The only "reason" not to have the very best brakes you can get is thinking that having the gear shift at your fingertips all the time is more important than the brakes......on a recreational bike on muddy canal towpath, or playing in the woods, this is plain wrong.
My list would come up very much like Merry Wanderer's, or this list...http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s21p2693
I know 10 speed is common on MTBs, but it doesn't have a good reputation for withstanding abuse. Most of my bikes are 8 speed, I have one that runs 9 speed. All are triples with friction front shift, so I run 8 speed chains on all of them. Triples give you a huge gear range, suitable for playing in the woods or the occasional blast on the road.
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Surly Cross Check Project - Help, Advice, Suggestions pl

Post by reohn2 »

73Chaz wrote:
I also have loads of questions:
What tools will I need?


correct BB tool,
cassette removal tool and chainwhip,
pedal spanner(though any open ended spanner of the correct size with do,
Spoke key
A good set of metric allen keys
8mm combination spanner
adjustable spanner big enough to fit the cassette tool
good quality cable cutters
Quality medium sized flat and size 1 and 2 phillips screwdrivers
I'll have forgotten something someone else will be along shortly....



How many different kinds of grease?

Two:- Shimano grease for hubs and any loose ball bearings
Copper grease for bolt threads to stop them seizing in situ.

Road bike parts or mtb parts?

Could be a mixture but be careful some don't work with others if you go to 10sp
1x10?

3x8 or 3x9 would be better and more durable
Drops plus bar end shifter?

Compact drops,b/ends are doable with a 3x set up
35c tyres?

Without doubt,Vittoria Voyager Hypers
V brakes, cantis or mini Vs? Which levers?

Full sized V's,Tektro RL 520's
Wheels - 32 spoke or 36? Mavic a719 rims maybe?

36 spoke,Deore or Deore LX hubs,Mavic 719's are good but expensive,Rigida Sputniks are cheap,heavy but bombproof.
Why aren't the rear drop outs vertical?

The CC is made so it can be run single speed,the horizontal d/outs facilitate chain adjustment
Is it silly to put a Brooks saddle on a bike you may leave chained up somewhere?

Not if you cover it up with a black plastic bag whenever you park it up :wink: .

EDIT:- if you like durable go for a square taper BB and Spa's own chainset.
If you're planning 8or9sp Deore M591 mechs will work very well with 9sp barend levers.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
Merry_Wanderer
Posts: 1002
Joined: 31 Aug 2012, 9:33am
Location: North Leicestershire

Re: Surly Cross Check Project - Help, Advice, Suggestions pl

Post by Merry_Wanderer »

I've gone for 9 speed on the C-C. My bikes are 8 and 9 speed for the same reason as 531colin and R2. I said before about 700 x 37 Vittoria hyper, I have checked and they are actually 700 x 35 :-)
npcarey
Posts: 24
Joined: 3 Mar 2015, 9:20pm

Re: Surly Cross Check Project - Help, Advice, Suggestions pl

Post by npcarey »

Am building a Cross Check at the moment, it has drops and bar-end shifters with a triple chainset and initially had problems, now solved, see thread- viewtopic.php?f=5&t=99657
Like others on this thread I went for full sized V brakes, slightly wider tyres Vittoria Randonneurs 40mm, 9-speed cassette. For wheels I just went to Rose.com and got cheapish Mavic rims with XT hubs. Good choice there.
I take it that the front forks are included so you already have a headset.
The frame I’m building is small, 42cm, it’s for Mrs. npc and a problem i’ve come across is fitting a full sized rear mudguard. The chain stay is positioned very close to the seat tube so with wide tyres the front mech interferes with the guard. I found that even a rearguard that fixes to the seat tube won’t do either. I’ll cut the full size one I have down and bodge some fixing to the seat tube.
Also be aware, a wide tyre with horizontal dropouts on a small frame will mean some difficulty removing the back wheel. However if your frame is large you shouldn’t have a problem.
Also be aware with horizontal dropouts the wheel must be kept true/square, if it’s not, then gears will slip when shifting. This is easy enough if the screws/blocks in the dropouts are set evenly.
You should be able to fit some shopping in a saddle or trunk bag so if you’re using a Brooks saddle then I’d use a saddlebag, carradice? If so somebody (possibly 531colin) in another thread mentioned a ‘Carradice Classic Saddlebag Rack’ available from Spa Cycles. It looks a lot more functional than the older style.
Or you could use a topeak beam rack with it’s appropriate bag.
In my opinion, pannier racks look grand with panniers on, but look awful without, so that’s why I am suggesting a bag.
Good luck.
Neil.
73Chaz
Posts: 66
Joined: 17 Aug 2015, 8:24pm

Re: Surly Cross Check Project - Help, Advice, Suggestions pl

Post by 73Chaz »

Thanks all, lots of great ideas and advice here.

Now I am leaning towards full size V brakes, a double chain set 2 x 8 or 9.

The simplicity of a 1x10 appealed to me, but having just been for my longest ride in recent times, I can see that some more low gears are always useful.

The frame is 60cm so some of the clearance issues others have mentioned should not be too much of a problem.
Graham O
Posts: 669
Joined: 27 Jan 2007, 7:54am

Re: Surly Cross Check Project - Help, Advice, Suggestions pl

Post by Graham O »

npcarey wrote: and a problem i’ve come across is fitting a full sized rear mudguard. The chain stay is positioned very close to the seat tube so with wide tyres the front mech interferes with the guard. I found that even a rearguard that fixes to the seat tube won’t do either. I’ll cut the full size one I have down and bodge some fixing to the seat tube.


I had the same problem with the chainstay bridge. If I tried to attach the mudguard directly to the bridge, the front mech was fouled and the mudguard was bent outwards (not following it's natural curve). I solved this with a piece of plastic conduit as a spacer and a long bolt. If you make the spacer too long, then you won't get an inflated wheel out, but with about a 1cm spacer, I can get 28mm Gatorskins out, albeit a bit tight. Hope this helps.

mudguard bodge.JPG
73Chaz
Posts: 66
Joined: 17 Aug 2015, 8:24pm

Re: Surly Cross Check Project - Help, Advice, Suggestions pl

Post by 73Chaz »

The previous owner had a two speed IGH so the down tube braze ons seem to never have been used and are covered in some bits of rubber, which are also painted...

Now looking into drive train options. One question arising is that many shimano cranks state "10 speed" or for use with a specific chain. Will this be an issue if I go for an 8 or 9 speed cassette?

Also looking at gearing, of which more, shortly.

Just noticed I can't post pictures from tapatalk; will have a try from web browser.
reohn2
Posts: 45158
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Surly Cross Check Project - Help, Advice, Suggestions pl

Post by reohn2 »

73Chaz wrote:The previous owner had a two speed IGH so the down tube braze ons seem to never have been used and are covered in some bits of rubber, which are also painted...

Now looking into drive train options. One question arising is that many shimano cranks state "10 speed" or for use with a specific chain. Will this be an issue if I go for an 8 or 9 speed cassette.


Why bother with Shimano cranks?
There are much better ones here:- http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... 0s109p2000
They come with 28/38/48t rings suited to 8 and 9sp chains and are good quality kit.
With a Shimano UN54 or 55 BB:- http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... -prod71369 they're far more durable than the external BB systems.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"All we are not stares back at what we are"
W H Auden
73Chaz
Posts: 66
Joined: 17 Aug 2015, 8:24pm

Re: Surly Cross Check Project - Help, Advice, Suggestions pl

Post by 73Chaz »

Yes, that does seem like a good idea.

In fact I'd been looking at spa cycles and strong light cranks on the web earlier this evening, and these do seem to be much more versatile than shimano kit.
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