Surly forks on non-Surly bikes

[goatwarden]

How do you find the braking? It looks like you have v brakes rear and disc (cable actuated) up front. Did that change the feel of the bike when braking or does it not make much difference having two types of brakes on the same bike?

Are they BB7 brakes? Look like it to me.

No, it's a BB5 road on the front and a canti (might be Tektro, I can't remember) on the rear, The canti is original and originally there was the same on the front.

Yes the braking feels different since it is now possible to stop the bike. With the cantis on both ends it was quite scary in heavy rain (and yes I do know how to adjust cantis) although not quite as scary as yesterday's ride in the rain on my rod-braked Triumph (no discernible braking effect).

[Tangled Metal]

Got bb7s on my bike and it stops in the rain but not as abruptly as my previous hydraulic braked hybrid. Plus the bb7s squeal badly whenever it's wet. Do the bb5s squeal too?

[Brucey]

disc brakes work differently with different pads in, as well as with different sized discs. They can also be extremely sensitive to the slightest contamination, condition of cables, you name it. IME BB7s with sintered pads and 180mm discs provide powerful braking in all conditions, but are noisy in operation, wet or dry. BB5s come with organic pads or sintered pads and are quite different brakes with each type of pad.

BTW Goatwarden's original setup was STIs (for use with DP calipers) mated (I think) with wide profile cantis. This gives a pretty low MA; even with top quality brake blocks and cables it isn't going to be a very powerful brake.

cheers

[reohn2]

disc brakes work differently with different pads in, as well as with different sized discs. They can also be extremely sensitive to the slightest contamination, condition of cables, you name it. IME BB7s with sintered pads and 180mm discs provide powerful braking in all conditions, but are noisy in operation, wet or dry.

Been riding BB7's for over 6 years without any contamination issues,they can be a little noisy on initial application in the wet,the trick is to give them a little squeeze now and again in very wet weather to clear off any muck/wet and they're then pretty quiet when braking proper.
If you want more powerful and quiet stopping use organic pads,but they will wear quicker.
With 203mm rotors on the tandem they very powerful and with 160mm rotors on solos just as powerful.

But compared to rim brakes they need far less attention once set up,only needing a click of the adjusters now and again.On mtb's running in really mucky/wet conditions do need more adjustment.

BTW Goatwarden's original setup was STIs (for use with DP calipers) mated (I think) with wide profile cantis. This gives a pretty low MA; even with top quality brake blocks and cables it isn't going to be a very powerful brake.

cheers

All the more reason to go for discs

[Brucey]

re contamination; organic pads are worse for it than sintered, it seems to me, and note that just riding in a claggy urban environment can be enough to cause the brakes to perform less well, there can be that much slimy diesel infested crud on the roads. Add in the potential for polish, spray lube etc getting onto the discs and there are many sources of possible contamination; it happens often.

cheers

[reohn2]

re contamination; organic pads are worse for it than sintered, it seems to me, and note that just riding in a claggy urban environment can be enough to cause the brakes to perform less well, there can be that much slimy diesel infested crud on the roads. Add in the potential for polish, spray lube etc getting onto the discs and there are many sources of possible contamination; it happens often.

cheers

I can only speak as I find,and I don't experience what you say.
I ride tarmac,including towns etc and rough stuff on a regular basis,no problems.

[Brucey]

well I think you have been careful and/or lucky. Contamination is a very common event.

cheers

[reohn2]

YVMV

I have a friend with the same BB7's on the same Cannondale tandem as ours,he's convinced they perform better the more you abuse them

[Brucey]

with sintered pads, the hotter they run, the more road film gets burnt off them. With organic pads, it just soaks in better, and makes the next braking event less good than it should be. If the road film build-up is quick/persistent enough, solo use with sintered pads can leave the brakes less good than they should be. Different pads, different conditions, different use, different outcome....

cheers

[reohn2]

with sintered pads, the hotter they run, the more road film gets burnt off them. With organic pads, it just soaks in better, and makes the next braking event less good than it should be. If the road film build-up is quick/persistent enough, solo use with sintered pads can leave the brakes less good than they should be. Different pads, different conditions, different use, different outcome....

cheers

Whatever,but I've tried both sintered and organic.
I prefer sintered they stop wet or dry just like organics but last longer and now wouldn't go back to rim brakes unless I have to,I have two tandems on V's they're good but not in the same class as discs.
BTW last week I was riding with a friend(solos)he wanted to see what the Hypers felt like so because he's not as tall as me we swapped bikes for a short descent.It's not often I get to hop off one bike onto another but what surprised me most,other than the harsh 25mm tyres,was the lack of braking power from the hoods with Campag DP's and Campag Ergo's.
I was glad to get back to a one finger light action braking system.
TBH my ratings for brakes are:-
a)cantis OKish,in the wet worryingly late to the show and dismally poor,loaded in the wet
b)DP(RX100 57 drop) good stoppers,in the wet less so and can be grabby,
c)V's excellent dry but lacking modulation,delayed slightly in the wet but can grab if you don't have confidence they will work when the water clears the rims.
I've tried all these brakes with a variety of pads and set ups,on a variety of different bikes over the years and they all perform better in the wet wih BBB Techstop(DP's) and Tristop(canti's and V's) pads.
Any pad works well in the dry but it's wet weather performance that's shows up the bad ones,the bad ones usually get embedded with grit and collect alu swarf off the rims,BBB's don't.

BB7 road discs beat the lot hands down wet or dry,one finger stopping with great modulation.
BB7 MTN are the same,though I have used them a lot they're just the same as the road version.

I swapped the TRP Spyres in favour of the BB7 MTN's on my GL,I like them so much.
I found the Spyres just as good stoppers,but prefer the BB7's for maintenance(that should read lack of),and simplicity and tool free adjustment.

That's my experience over a number of years.

[Brucey]

with sintered pads, the hotter they run, the more road film gets burnt off them. With organic pads, it just soaks in better, and makes the next braking event less good than it should be. If the road film build-up is quick/persistent enough, solo use with sintered pads can leave the brakes less good than they should be. Different pads, different conditions, different use, different outcome....

cheers

Whatever,but I've tried both sintered and organic....

and have thus far avoided contamination.... hence I'm trying to explain what can happen when you get that and why different pads work differently in different conditions. It isn't magic, it is just physics.

cheers

[reohn2]

[

and have thus far avoided contamination.... hence I'm trying to explain what can happen when you get that and why different pads work differently in different conditions. It isn't magic, it is just physics.

cheers

And I'm trying explain that discs beat rim brakes hands down,especially in wet weather.
From that start point,if disc brakes become contaminated so can rim brakes,which also isn't magic just fact.

PS,Did I mention that disc brakes don'e wear out rims?
More physics

[Brucey]

no one person's experience using one type of kit can possibly represent what happens with all examples of the breed. So to extrapolate that all disc brakes are always the best in wet weather is frankly a bit of a jump.

My personal experience is that some disc setups can give dangerously bad wet weather braking, on initial application and that this can occur with all the pad types that the manufacturer endorses, (e.g. since sintered pads are not permitted with many systems). Additionally they are subject to contamination that not only has a far more adverse effect than similar contamination with rim brakes, but is also far more difficult to correct (you often need to replace the pads) or to avoid in future.

I mention these things because they are just as valid experiences as your own, and in fact may better represent the typical experiences of disc users in other conditions, and certainly will represent the experiences when using some disc systems.

The idea that the susceptibility of typical rim brake systems to contamination is in any comparable to that of discs does not bear close scrutiny. People can and do use products such as WD40 as 'cleaners' on their rims, despite the oily deposit that remains. Try that with discs and see how you get on!

cheers

[reohn2]

Brucey
Up thread I was specific in stating YVMV I also stated IME.
I've also clearly stated that having used a variety of rim brakes and various makes of pads and only Avid BB7 discs,my preference is for the discs.
I've stated these reasons clearly and I stand by that,so to draw a line under the issue once again I'll state YVMV.

[Brucey]

And I'm trying explain that discs beat rim brakes hands down,especially in wet weather.
From that start point,if disc brakes become contaminated so can rim brakes,which also isn't magic just fact.

PS,Did I mention that disc brakes don'e wear out rims?
More physics

caveats upthread, maybe. But no caveats there..?

Just trying to add a little balance and perspective you know!

I mean if you used a given type of derailleur gear system and found it either good or bad, most people would think it a bit of a leap to then suggest that they might all be like that....

cheers