Bike Kickstand

[Tangled Metal]

Thinking of getting a kickstand for my London Road bike. I've bought a vavert double leg before but it never fitted my old bike and this one too. The bolt was too short to clamp the stays behind the BB. Couldn't be bothered with a longer bolt as not impressed by it.

I was thinking of a single leg attached somewhere else. I've seen one fitted to the rear dropout on the website for the distributor of topeak cargo trailer of all places. Not sure what make it is or if it fits my bike but anything similar might suit my needs. Anyone got ideas?

[gaz]

I use a Pletscher Multi-Zoom.

[Brucey]

I would not recommend any stand that bolts behind the BB unless the frame is designed for it. One that bolts onto the stays near the rear wheel might be OK but be careful.

cheers

[Tangled Metal]

Why not behind the bb? The bikes I've had recently had a plate back there with a cross brace too. The plate had a hole in it to allow the bolt through. I took that as where you would attach a stand.

Would have thought that part was stronger than just one stay.

[Brucey]

I would not recommend any stand that bolts behind the BB unless the frame is designed for it...

Why not behind the bb? The bikes I've had recently had a plate back there with a cross brace too. The plate had a hole in it to allow the bolt through. I took that as where you would attach a stand....

In which case the frame is designed exactly for that purpose. If in doubt, note that the bracket will have a downwards lip on it which is to locate the edge of the stand.

However the stand manufacturers helpfully supply clamps that allow you to attach such stands to frames that have round chainstays and a round (or no) bracing piece. The shock/service loads from the stand will usually work it loose if the bolt isn't tight, so most folk will overtighten the bolt when the stand works loose even if they didn't to start with. Any kind of lightweight frame is easily crushed by an M10 bolt; many manufacturers will void their frame warranty if you damage your frame through using one of these (on the 'use of accessories not designed for use on our frames' clause) and some (Thorn, Surly) explicitly prohibit their use . Even frames that you might think are a bit 'gas-pipey' can easily be damaged in this way. I've seen dozens of frames that have been damaged in this way.

If there is a flat bracket then the frame is designed for a stand. Such brackets are almost invariably MIG welded in place on cheap frames and this almost guarantees that the chainstays are thick-walled. If you try this construction with thin-walled stays the welding is difficult, and the stress concentrations will mean that the assembly will soon crack if you ride out of the saddle much.

On a production frame if there is a plate the frame will probably last out the warranty period, but the plate welds will be a common point of failure once the frame is a few years old. In a steel frame, no problem, just have the frame weld-repaired; it won't be much worse than it was when it was new....

NB if you fit a twin-legged stand, you can more easily damage the chainstays, because the stand will survive brief excursions over the rated load (which is normally about 25kg) but the frame may not. Single legged stands are unlikely to see the same loads.

cheers

[Tangled Metal]

What is the best option if your bike doesn't have that plate? Is there a safe means to attach a stand and what model is best? It's to allow a loaded bike to be stood up but also when we are putting our child into his seat on the back.

[Brucey]

the traditional dutch solution is to use a rack with a built in stand. This puts the loads into the bike where it is able to withstand them.

Of the stands that attach behind the BB the Pletscher is the most elegant but the Hebie is (on paper) stronger up to a point (IME they will break in a couple of years of daily use, but can be weld repaired). I would attach neither to a frame without a bracket though; the risk of frame damage is just too great.

If you really must do that, I'd suggest

a) welding a bracket onto the frame (if it is gas pipe, it'll be fine for a few years at least) or
b) adding shaped plates (eg in 2mm thickness steel) above and below the chainstays that spread the load into them over a greater length.

In the latter case the main stand bolt could sandwich upper and lower plates, each curved to match the chainstays. In addition the plates could each be fastened to the chainstays using P clips of suitable size.

If you consider the frame to be either disposable or repairable in the event of breakage, then maybe it is OK to do what you like. A single broken chainstay will make the bike feel like it has a hinge in the middle but is unlikely to cause a nasty accident. I guess it is unlikely that both chainstays will break at the same time.

hth

cheers

[Tangled Metal]

What about the ones I think you can get attached to the chainstays. I am sure I have seen one where the single leg flips up to the chainstay when not in use and IIRC must come down from the rear axle or from the chainstay to the front.

So without the bracket the standard behind the BB stand is out but there must be something without having to find some new rack with the stand built in. I have a decent stand that I like so would rather not change out. Reckon if there is no stand option that doesn't weaken the frame, other than this rack, I reckon I will have to do without.

[gaz]

http://www.click-stand.com/ . There are some home made versions on the forum, e.g.viewtopic.php?f=16&t=97099&p=901458&#p901458

I seem to recall a review of a stand that attaches to the rear axle in a recent edition of Cycle, I don't keep back copies and can't recall if it was considered suitable for a loaded bike.

[Brucey]

if I read it correctly a two-legged stand is what is really required/desired here; I know that people load kids onto bikes without such, but it is far easier with a two-legged stand than any one-legged stand, I think.

Single-legged stands that clamp to the stays near the rear wheel are pretty good but they are not as stable as a two-legged stand in use.

cheers

[bikes4two]

I use a Pletscher Multi-Zoom.

+1 for these. I have 3 of them on steel framed bikes, all of which I've used with touring loads. I don't think I'd use them on anything other than steel though as even on steel the uninformed could over tighten the clamp and crush the chain stay tubing. As for breaking under a heavy load (as in panniers etc), you need to be careful.

[pete75]

What Surly say about kickstands is this "We recommend the use of two leg kickstands such as the Pletscher. Such a design helps reduce the potential for chainstay flex compared to that which a loaded bike leaning on a kickstand single leg can impose. And because of the extra leg and the placement, they tend to be the most stable in our experience."
The problem with a lot of 2 legged stands is they will often foul the chain on bikes with derailleur gears. This design from Pletscher overcomes that problem as both legs fold on the left side. I have one on a tandem and it works very well. http://www.rosebikes.com/article/pletsc ... aid:553965

[Brucey]

What Surly say about kickstands is this ...

but that is not all. That is just part of what they say here;

http://surlybikes.com/info_hole/spew/kickstands_on_long_haul_truckers

IIRC they used to say something different to that. If you read that, and then read the warranty

http://surlybikes.com//uploads/downloads/Surly_Frame_Warranty.pdf

it is pretty clear that if you do fit a stand and your frame breaks or is damaged, you are on your own, no warranty, like this bloke who damaged his frame very quickly but didn't break it yet...

http://justinlott.com/surly-pletscher-kickstand-damage/

If you do fit a stand then a twin leg pletscher one might be one of the least bad choices; they are good stands. But don't for one moment think that you will not risk damage to your frame by using one.

IME when the stand goes up and down it vibrates and moves. When in use, it can move. If you tighten the bolt enough that it doesn't move in that way, you start to crush the stays. On some frames you cannot tighten the bolt enough to stop movement, the frame just isn't strong enough, you would just squash the frame flat before the stand would stay put.

One poster here

http://www.bikeforums.net/touring/240314-esge-kickstand-surly-long-haul-trucker.html

has had the same experience as me, and everyone else has -as far as I can tell- damaged their frames but they didn't break yet, so that is OK then...

cheers

[pete75]

What Surly say about kickstands is this ...

but that is not all. That is just part of what they say here;

http://surlybikes.com/info_hole/spew/kickstands_on_long_haul_truckers

IIRC they used to say something different to that. If you read that, and then read the warranty

http://surlybikes.com//uploads/downloads/Surly_Frame_Warranty.pdf

it is pretty clear that if you do fit a stand and your frame breaks or is damaged, you are on your own, no warranty, like this bloke who damaged his frame very quickly but didn't break it yet...

http://justinlott.com/surly-pletscher-kickstand-damage/

If you do fit a stand then a twin leg pletscher one might be one of the least bad choices; they are good stands. But don't for one moment think that you will not risk damage to your frame by using one.

IME when the stand goes up and down it vibrates and moves. When in use, it can move. If you tighten the bolt enough that it doesn't move in that way, you start to crush the stays. On some frames you cannot tighten the bolt enough to stop movement, the frame just isn't strong enough, you would just squash the frame flat before the stand would stay put.

One poster here

http://www.bikeforums.net/touring/240314-esge-kickstand-surly-long-haul-trucker.html

has had the same experience as me, and everyone else has -as far as I can tell- damaged their frames but they didn't break yet, so that is OK then...

cheers

The Surly warranty appears to be one big "get out" clause! In any case consumer legislation provides much better protection an din the UK a manufacturers warranty is moreless irrelevant as claims are made against the supplier not the manufacturer. In the bit I quoted Surly say "We recommend the use of two leg kickstands such as the Pletscher." In view of that it'd be difficult for the supplier of a Long Haul Trucker to talk his way out of any problem the frame suffered due to the correct fitting of such a stand.

[531colin]

So, you know the stand is likely to damage the frame, but you recommend fitting one and shafting the retailer when it all goes belly up?