Dynamo bike lights – do they vary in power draw and drag?

[interestedcp]

Do we have any opinions on the Busch & Müller LUMOTEC IQ2 Eyc N plus (what a name!) if I decide I should spend less? It’s much smaller than a Cyo, but small is typically worse when it comes to optics of all sorts.

No personal experience. I haven't even seen it IRL. But IMHO, everything below the B&M Cyo Premium aren't about getting maximum light on the road, but about other features like price or look. The B&M Eyc is part of trend where (urban?) consumers want small but good, so you now see tiny, but high quality rear and front lights, both battery and dynamo driven.

It is probably a good light (judging from online beam shots, though such can be misleading), and it is cheap (can be found for around £25). But I suspect you will be happier with a 80 Lux choice if you want to ride fast, and the Eyc certainly isn't cheap choice anymore if you quickly upgrade it to a more powerful unit.

[MikeF]

Do we have any opinions on the Busch & Müller LUMOTEC IQ2 Eyc N plus (what a name!) if I decide I should spend less? It’s much smaller than a Cyo, but small is typically worse when it comes to optics of all sorts.

No personal experience. I haven't even seen it IRL. But IMHO, everything below the B&M Cyo Premium aren't about getting maximum light on the road, but about other features like price or look. The B&M Eyc is part of trend where (urban?) consumers want small but good, so you now see tiny, but high quality rear and front lights, both battery and dynamo driven.

It is probably a good light (judging from online beam shots, though such can be misleading), and it is cheap (can be found for around £25). But I suspect you will be happier with a 80 Lux choice if you want to ride fast, and the Eyc certainly isn't cheap choice anymore if you quickly upgrade it to a more powerful unit.

You slated the Philips light which I find good. Is your opinion of all these different lights based on experience, or others' experience or what?

[interestedcp]

You slated the Philips light which I find good. Is your opinion of all these different lights based on experience, or others' experience or what?

Yeah, I own a B&M Cyo Premium, a 60 Lux Cyo (1. gen.), a 40 Lux Cyo R, an IQ Fly (1. gen.), and a couple of halogen B&M Ovals. I also frequently ride at night and in the winter with other dynamo light users.
However when saying the Philips Saferide is outclassed, this isn't merely based on subjective impressions riding along with others, but on Olaf Vitter's Goniometer tests of it. They clearly show how much wider the Cyo Premium beam is and that is has longer throw too. It is not that the Saferide is a bad light, it is just based on older LED technology. Since the Saferide appeared (2010?), newer and better LED's have been developed and B&M have also tweaked their optics. I am sure that Philips could have upgraded the Saferide to use even better LED's, but as said, they pulled out from the market.

My ancient 60 Lux Cyo (2008) is still good enough for my commuter bike so I see no reason to upgrade to something newer; just because newer and better lights appear, it doesn't mean that older lights suddenly becomes obsolete and bad.

[MikeF]

Yes, in reality it's not easy to compare lights, unless you actually try them. The manufacturers usually give either Lux or Lumens. Lumens is not particularly helpful as it's just brightness of the source and not of what is illuminated. Lux is better and I understand measured at a distance of 10 metres for a bicycle light, but is it over a given area?

I thought I read somewhere, but I can't find it, that Philips changed the LEDs from the original ones used in 2010. However LEDs seem to be improving in brightness over time, which must good for cycle lights!

[SA_SA_SA]

.....but the Philips also appears to have a better light colour than most lights including the Edelux II, which is its great attraction to me. Maybe it’s because I’m a bit of a photographer, but I hate blueish light with missing chunks in the spectral power distribution (though all LEDs suffer from these problems compared to incandescent lamps).
.....

There are some MR16 LED bulbs based on violet LEDs so as to avoid the missing chunks (intended to replace halogens in Shop displays so good CRI needed).
http://www.soraa.com/news/vivid-launch-home
http://www.soraa.com/public/docs/A_Critical_Advance_In_MR16_Lamps-Benya.pdf

If you want a neutral white (rather than the usual cold blue white) lamp, the 2nd version of Herrmans H One S is an alternative to the later Philips* although its beam is narrower and less sharp.

*Light colour became more neutral in later ones

[PaulRivers]

.....but the Philips also appears to have a better light colour than most lights including the Edelux II, which is its great attraction to me. Maybe it’s because I’m a bit of a photographer, but I hate blueish light with missing chunks in the spectral power distribution (though all LEDs suffer from these problems compared to incandescent lamps).
.....

I found this thread while looking for info on the new Iq-x.

I bought the Schmidt Edelux II because I had read many of the same things the other poster did that it was an amazing light, outclasses everything else (well for a dynamo light), etc. I have been very, very disappointed. I also own a Light And Motion Taz.

For color output the Edelux is "fine", but nothing great. It's kinda funny on my eyes and brain - don't know how else to describe it. It's like a lot of other bike lights I've owned, it works, but my brain feels like there's something missing.

In contrast, my Light And Motion Taz is much more normal. My eyes and brain don't feel like there's something missing. Color are more accurate (though not 100% accurate compared to daylight). But I've switched back and forth between the Edelux II and the Taz several times on several different rides now - The Taz is a more expensive light at $230, but the light it puts out I find much nicer on the eyes and brain. The one drawback of the Taz is that the light does not go as far down the road.

I really want a dynamo light, so I ordered a Saferide dynamo front light off ebay. Guess I'll see what I think of the kind of light it puts out...

P.S. Frankly there are several other things I don't like about the Schmidt. My local bike shop has a demo with both the Schmidt and the Cyo Premium on display.
- Schmidt standlight puts out a noticeably lower amount of light when stopped vs the Cyo (which has seperate led's for the standlight which are bright)
- Schmidt standlight essentially runs out far quicker, I turn "off" the light when I get back to my apt building, take the bike up the elevator and walk to my apt - by the time I get inside it's so weak you can't even see anything with it even in an apt with no lights on at night
- The "reed switch" has no definite "click" for different modes, it feels cheaper than the Cyo switch in my opinion
- The Schmidt doesn't turn off when you turn the light off - it stops accepting power and goes to standlight mode. The Cyo turns off when you turn the light off, which I greatly prefer as it doesn't require walking away from my locked up bike with a light still appearing to be on
- The Schmidt uses a proprietary tail light mount for one of the leads, the Cyo looks like it uses the same "2 wires with leads" thing that the Saferide uses. Now I'm going to have to put a whole new tail light wire on or cut the Schmidt lead off or something which is really annoying
- The one advantage of the Schmidt is that it looks a little nicer than the Cyo Premium

I really haven't been impressed with the Schmidt Edelux, several things above the Cyo does better, and while the Schmidt light output is whiter than the Cyo, it's not nearly as nice as the Light And Motion led light output

[SA_SA_SA]

....... The B&M Eyc is part of trend where (urban?) consumers want small but good, so you now see tiny, .... front lights,...

But all other things being equal, a smaller lamp will cause more dazzle than a bigger one, so why fit a small one due to fashion: Bahhh humbug

[summers]

Strange thing is, I'm a racing cyclist, but my commuting bike runs a hub dynamo (Shimano n80 for me).

Yes the hub dynamno must cause drag.
But so do the mudguards.
And the rear rack.
The Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres -they really don't help.
The frame is simple steel - that flexes all over he shop - and that really wastes power
And adopting a low pro possition would save huge amounts of power.
As well as a skin suit
And pointy helmet

But this is all hog wash, fact is my commuting bike rolls along great. There may be drag from the dynamo hub, but it really isn't noticable, well not given drag elsewhere. I really wouldn't worry about it.

[syklist]

The details of how hub dynamos (alternators?) work are a mystery to me, but I understand these hubs consume more mechanical power when they’re producing more electrical power – no great surprise.

The question then arises whether various dynamo lights draw significantly different power and thus create noticeably different drag when turned on. By noticeable, let’s say anything above two watts, which may not actually be noticeable by feel but might still matter.

I have a variety of dynamos on a variety of bikes. From cheap Shimano to expensive SON. Lighting (all LED) varies from the mundane to the state of the art. Two small wheeled folders with dynohubs and two normal tourers with dynohubs. I cannot say I have ever noticed any extra drag ever when cycling on one or another of my bikes.

Things that cause me to notice drag are, among others, hills, headwinds, tyres going flat, pulling 35kg of child and trailer behind my bike, feeling a bit off, lack of sleep, dehydration, need to eat syndrome, rough and/or loose and/or otherwise sticky road surfaces, the two pints of milk and the watermelon we bought at the end of day supermarket stop. These all cause "noticeable drag". Dynohubs don't - or rather the dynohubs I have used don't.

[Samuel D]

PaulRivers: thanks for mentioning those differences between the Edelux II and the IQ Cyo Premium. I guess lighting is ultimately a personal thing, and what works brilliantly for one person might not work so well for another.

Since I’ve pretty much decided to order a SONdelux-based front wheel, I’ll have to economise on the lamps. Therefore the Edelux II is out anyway.

Looking forward to hearing how you get on with the Philips Saferide too.

[Brucey]

maybe I missed it but I don't recall you saying if you want to ride in town, on the open road, or out in the wilderness, if you routinely ride (or store your bike in) foul weather, or if you are going to leave your bike locked up anywhere....I think that these things would affect my choice of dynamo and light far more than the last 2W of drag.

cheers

[Samuel D]

I don’t commute, but I do sometimes use the bicycle for getting around town. When I do that, it is never left in insecure parking, so I’m not worried about theft.

At home it lives in a secure and dry basement.

I avoid foul weather as much as possible but of course may be caught in it from time to time.

Mostly I cycle for pleasure, health, a sense of competition with others, the personal challenge, and to explore the world. Since I live 10 km from the nearest sliver of countryside, my rides inevitably go through many kilometres of built-up areas (often it is when I’m coming home through these areas after a long ride that I get sunset anxiety).

But my great dream with this dynamo-light setup is to ride in the countryside in the dead of night. For example, I’d like to cycle from Paris to Dieppe overnight, arriving at the sea at dawn.

I don’t expect to cycle in wilderness proper.

By the way, does anyone here get irrationally afraid of the dark when in deep countryside at night? I can envisage feeling slight nervousness sometimes. Maybe a wide beam helps alleviate that sort of feeling?

[old_windbag]

I have the B+M cyo IQ premium which has a wide beam, long throw. Samuel you mention the dream of travelling through the night, well I've found the wide beam of the cyo premium beneficial when encountering nocturnal mammals. In the case of a badger I'd not have had time to react without the width of the beam lighting it up. Those seconds can definitely help as I'm not out to hurt any animal and to be able to avoid is a win-win for both parties. In the city these problems never struck me but in pitch black rural surrounds they certainly wake you up...... oops forgot to mention to be very aware of ghosts .

I also noticed the post from Paul Rivers... if this is the same minneapolis Paul Rivers then thanks for cross linking my blog page on bikeforums.net.

[Brucey]

I agree, for a bike that you are hoping to do many open road miles on in the night, as good a light as you can afford would be the thing.

For jaunts like that I'd suggest that you might think about fitting a second lamp in series with the first, even if you don't normally use that kind of arrangement. This basically gives you a 6W setup instead of a 3W setup.

cheers

[ConRAD]

... this basically gives you a 6W setup instead of a 3W setup ...

Did it with two old style filament 6V/3W lights connected in series and I’ve got 5.5W (11.93V-0.462A) at 20km/h !!
Do you think that I can replicate with a couple of Edelux alike headlights ?