Hello CTC! DIY titanium allen key project :).

[ljamesbee]

Here's a WW tip for you, nylon bolts and washers, much much lighter than titanium, not to be used for certain areas of course but you can shave a few extra grams that way

Nice tip . They are cheap too! I use them for bottle cages, especially of the invisible variety like in this very low quality photo of my seat tube.

[[XAP]Bob]

Does weight (at this level) really make a bike more rideable?

[Manc33]

Does weight (at this level) really make a bike more rideable?

He wants that extra half a Mars bar though. If you're going to these lengths to save weight, you might as well "Nitro-Mors" the paint off the bike, won't that shave probably 20g? Think of all that lead just stuck to the bike, doing nothing.

OP have you replaced all your chainring bolts and other bolts already with Ti?

Maybe the Ti allen keys aren't so daft after all - if they were being used with titanium bolts.

What about carbon fiber parts? I wouldn't tour with them but plenty probably do.

[ljamesbee]

Does weight (at this level) really make a bike more rideable?

Yes. Makes it much more rideable. There's a little known value in bike design called the 'LETLWAP' constant. It's a bit technical, but basically it's used to calculate the perfect weight of a bike to give best to ride (the precise value is still hotly debated). For the average height and weight male rider you get a value of 8.76kg. My bike and tools weighed 8.78kg, so I just needed to lose another 20g.

Some people think that this stands for:

Light
Enough
To
Lift
With
A
Pinky

This is just a myth though, which someone made up. It's actually named after the man who first calculated it in the 1930's, John T Letlwap.

[reohn2]

TBH,if I were as concerned about lightness as the OP, I'd start with myself by trimming as much fat off as is safe and healthy by strict diet.
Perhaps the OP has already done so and found it wasn't enough.

[Brucey]

... There's a little known value in bike design called the 'LETLWAP' constant. It's a bit technical....

oh yeah, its right in the book along with the 'BLLSHT' constant...

cheers

[andrewjoseph]

"average rider" = pretty vague and could be any size and weight between "small" and "large", "short" and "tall"

"8.76kg" = precise to a few decimal places.

how, exactly, do they apply to each other?

a percentage of the individual riders weight, like between 10 and 15%, yes, i can see that. but a definitive weight for the "average" rider?

[bainbridge]

I'm all for saving weight and on my last tour weighed everything individually, however tools are what keep you on the road. I looked at what I had and honestly asked myself 'Would this work out on the road?' and the tool kit kind of evolved around that.

For example I have a great little Specialized multitool which contains, among other things, an 8mm stubby hex key into which slots a screwdriver bit. It also has a chain removal tool which the screwdriver bit also slots into for leverage. Now I hadn't used the tool much though it comes along on all my day rides, it'd only really been used for seat adjustment etc and any servicing is done with workshop tools at home. So I played about with this multitool with a spare piece of chain and to my surprise it was actually quite good at splitting, rejoining and adjusting the chain. Granted it wasn't as easy to use as my dedicated chain removal tool but it did the job rather well so I left the chain tool at home and took the multitool. As for the stubby 8mm hex key, it fits the bottom bracket bolts but no way would I be able to get any leverage whatsoever, so along came a proper 8mm allen key which is man enough for the job. To give the allen key another use I wrapped a foot of gaffer tape around the end to give me some emergency gaffer (rather than taking a roll) and to stop the end from digging into my hand when tightening down the bb bolts.

What I'm trying to say is I'd much rather bear the burden of carrying enough do a solid repair/adjustment rather than flying by the seat of my pants and ending up out of action because I wanted to save 50 odd grams.

[ljamesbee]

... There's a little known value in bike design called the 'LETLWAP' constant. It's a bit technical....

oh yeah, its right in the book along with the 'BLLSHT' constant...

cheers

OP have you replaced all your chainring bolts and other bolts already with Ti?

Maybe the Ti allen keys aren't so daft after all - if they were being used with titanium bolts.

What about carbon fiber parts? I wouldn't tour with them but plenty probably do.

I save weight on stuff as a function of cost. So whatever saves the most for the least ca$h is what I switch out. This avoids spending money on less efficient things to change, but some very surprising things become reasonable to switch out. I've learnt that my instincts are just shockingly bad so I just made a spreadsheet and put all the numbers in which told me what was best to change first.

For example, some surprising things: titanium wheel skewers (£7.16 saved 127g), nylon bottle cage bolts (£0.99 saved 18g), different shoes (£27.99 saved 506g), and different water bottles...seriously...(£2.60 saved 52g), and they match my bike now ) turned out to give some of the best bang for for the buck. Some more obvious stuff made absolutely massive weight savings. Different tyres, tubes, rear rack, bike stem and panniers were the things I saved the most on (£107.43 for 3349g), and these costs are not including the fact that I sold most of the things I replaced as well.

I have 3 carbon fibre parts (saddle, seatpost and handlebars), which are just as real as my steel frame and forks. I would switch them out for touring because a) they are a bit flashy so may attract thieves and b) the carbon saddle is not comfortable enough for long distances. I would not switch them out because of worries over their fragility (language warning - carbon seatpost destruction video)

There are 3 things which I kinda consider to have been frivolous, just cause I thought they looked cool . cnc chainring bolts (£2.98 for 16g), cnc jockey wheels (£3.25 for 20g) and my only titanium bolt - seatpost nut/bolt (£4.38 for 28g)

I know it's probably really boring, but I'll make a post and list all the things I switched out as it might be useful for someone.

[TonyR]

A lot of 4mm and 5mm bolts are at 4nm to 8nm

Wow, nanotechnology on bikes!

[MartinC]

If you want to save weight you could ride a unicycle. Save's an unnecessary wheel, frame, chain, etc. All this messing around with tool material just isn't a serious attempt at weight minimisation.

[jb]

Bottom line is - if the tool is not up to the job on the day then you may have well have saved the rest of the weight by not taking anything.

Become that credit card tourer (in-fact, credit cards can make remarkably good screwdrivers and a small hexagon slot cut in the bottom - hey presto, a spanner....)

[bainbridge]

... There's a little known value in bike design called the 'LETLWAP' constant. It's a bit technical....

oh yeah, its right in the book along with the 'BLLSHT' constant...

cheers

OP have you replaced all your chainring bolts and other bolts already with Ti?

Maybe the Ti allen keys aren't so daft after all - if they were being used with titanium bolts.

What about carbon fiber parts? I wouldn't tour with them but plenty probably do.

I save weight on stuff as a function of cost. So whatever saves the most for the least ca$h is what I switch out. This avoids spending money on less efficient things to change, but some very surprising things become reasonable to switch out. I've learnt that my instincts are just shockingly bad so I just made a spreadsheet and put all the numbers in which told me what was best to change first.

For example, some surprising things: titanium wheel skewers (£7.16 saved 127g), nylon bottle cage bolts (£0.99 saved 18g), different shoes (£27.99 saved 506g), and different water bottles...seriously...(£2.60 saved 52g), and they match my bike now ) turned out to give some of the best bang for for the buck. Some more obvious stuff made absolutely massive weight savings. Different tyres, tubes, rear rack, bike stem and panniers were the things I saved the most on (£107.43 for 3349g), and these costs are not including the fact that I sold most of the things I replaced as well.

I have 3 carbon fibre parts (saddle, seatpost and handlebars), which are just as real as my steel frame and forks. I would switch them out for touring because a) they are a bit flashy so may attract thieves and b) the carbon saddle is not comfortable enough for long distances. I would not switch them out because of worries over their fragility (language warning - carbon seatpost destruction video)

There are 3 things which I kinda consider to have been frivolous, just cause I thought they looked cool . cnc chainring bolts (£2.98 for 16g), cnc jockey wheels (£3.25 for 20g) and my only titanium bolt - seatpost nut/bolt (£4.38 for 28g)

I know it's probably really boring, but I'll make a post and list all the things I switched out as it might be useful for someone.

That is actually quite interesting, but the bike must be less rugged as a result, making a repair more likely?

All the more reason to have some decent tools, you've saved lots of weight already, I'd draw the line at tools.

[TonyR]

That is actually quite interesting, but the bike must be less rugged as a result, making a repair more likely?

Keith Bontrager said cheap, light, strong, choose any two.

[Brucey]

I think it can sometimes be OK to use lightweight tools provided they are known to be good enough to do the specific job concerned.

For example, when I went (reverted actually) to using shimano freehubs for touring, it seemed to me that it would be useful to be able to remove (or tighten) the freehub body should the need arise. For example if a drive-side spoke breaks, removing the whole freehub body is one way of gaining access to the spokes. But a 10mm allen key is a very hefty lump. To this end I built a hollow 10mm allen key tool that is just long enough to do the job, and can be worked using any (pair of) 10mm spanners, which I carry anyway. The tool weighs (IIRC) 27g or something. I've never needed to use it, but I know it works and I know I've got it if I need it.

I also built a titanium spanner to allow the top nut on a campag headset (or Tange or Shimano with octagonal nut) to be tightened if necessary. It weighs something like 15g or so. Again I've never needed to actually use it, but it is there if I need it...

Similarly the spanners in Mafac toolkits were never capable of high torque values, just enough to do the bolts on Mafac brakes and one or two other jobs.

I think that with a little effort you can be properly equipped for most likely jobs on tour, but perhaps be carrying about 1/2lb less in the way of tools. Not much, but every little bit makes a difference I guess.

Now whether you wouldn't be better off trying to save weight some other way (on the bike, or bodily, or buying better touring kit) is quite another matter.... but each to his own, eh...

cheers