Is My Local Bike Shop Ripping Me Off?

[blackbike]

Anyone who claims to be ripped off by a LBS needs to show us they could have provided the service a lot cheaper while maintaining a standard of living they think is appropriate for a shop owner.

I never use my LBSs because I don't need to, but I have no reason to believe their owners are a particularly avaricious breed of shopkeeper.

It must be hard to keep a bike shop going when the internet sells cheap bits and many people can do their own bike maintenance.

The scope for profiteering must be very small if not non-existent.

[Brian73]

Get the LBS to fit the bottom bracket (which requires crank puller and BB spline tool plus some welly if it's stuck). Rear mech and chain requires a 5mm allen key, Philips screwdriver and a £5 chain splitter

[profpointy]

Anyone who claims to be ripped off by a LBS needs to show us they could have provided the service a lot cheaper while maintaining a standard of living they think is appropriate for a shop owner.

I never use my LBSs because I don't need to, but I have no reason to believe their owners are a particularly avaricious breed of shopkeeper.

It must be hard to keep a bike shop going when the internet sells cheap bits and many people can do their own bike maintenance.

The scope for profiteering must be very small if not non-existent.

there again, many of us pay a.fiver for a cup of coffee and a bun - but we could buy the ingredients for 50 pence. Admittedly I have never paid for work from a bike shop, but would have no fundamental objection to doing so. I thick I'd do supply-and-fit for mudguards for instance - technically easy, but tedious. I might also pay for for BB or headaet replacement though have done former myself previously

[PH]

It must be hard to keep a bike shop going when the internet sells cheap bits and many people can do their own bike maintenance.

Yes, very hard if they still think it's the 1980s or 90s, they need to change their services to match the changing nature of retail. That's obviously easier for some than others, and impossible for quite a few as well. But there is money to be made in cycling, you only need to look at the growing number of shops and
how they're doing to see that. Not all big chains at all, smaller specialised shops that can offer what the chins can't seem to be doing well as do those who have become far more involved with the cycling community.

[Therealsouthstander]

Every single time I put my bike in for a service at the local independent bike shop, he says I need a new chain and cassette..

Getting a bit peeved off at this to be honest...

BTW - I cycle around 5-6 thousand miles over 2 bike each year....surely I don't need a new chain/ cassette on both bikes every year ?


Thoughts

[Brucey]

it is the tyranny of the chain checker, perhaps?

But if you have a (typical, not very durable) modern transmission, you can see one off in 3000 miles, easy. Put it this way, the chances of them lasting until the next (annual?) service might be zero?

If you change the chain only, you must do it before around 0.75% elongation; after that you must usually replace the chain and sprockets together. If you use a (now worn) chain it'll still work but it won't be as efficient, and it will be wearing the chainrings out, which cost a lot more than the chain and sprockets, typically.

There are many ways of managing transmission wear, and changing chain and sprocket together, regularly, is not unusual.

cheers

[ChrisF]

there again, many of us pay a.fiver for a cup of coffee and a bun - but we could buy the ingredients for 50 pence.

A good analogy.
I don't think many people have a right to complain about prices in small businesses until they have run one themselves. Only then do you get to find how much all the costs add up, and how it's so difficult to compete with the multinationals.

[pete75]

Anyone who claims to be ripped off by a LBS needs to show us they could have provided the service a lot cheaper while maintaining a standard of living they think is appropriate for a shop owner.

Yeah and anyone who thinks lawyers charge too much needs to show how they could have provided the service a lot cheaper while maintaining a standard of living appropriate for a successful lawyer - the public school fees, the wife's Range Rover, the daughter's pony, the weekend cottage in Norfolk etc

[BigFoz]

Your income depends on specialised, detailed knowledge.

Bolting bits of bikes together does not require that. Anyone with a bit of common sense can do it.

I think it's a little more complicated than that, actually.

I agree. Most people either haven't a clue or don't want to have. And I'm not criticising them either. It can be dirty, skin-scraping fiddly work at times and technically challenging as well as so many posts on here testify.

But it's also fun!

I do all my own maintenance bar fitting headsets (Good quality tools for that are more expensive than a trip to LBS and it's an irregular expense). Regular maintenance avoids pitfalls such as rusted in BBs etc. It really is quite easy, and good fun. Decent stand and some reasonable tools will get you a very long way. You tube if you have to. Only thing I've ever had to research was rebuilding a Campag Ergo lever. I used the exploded diagrams on the Campag website to work out which bit was gubbed, bought a replacement off eBay, reassembled. I had to make a mini "third hand" tool for holding the spring (Cut down bulldog clip...) but other than that I've never encountered anything difficult. Having said that, I have a Record Carbon lever needs a new paddle - that one will be going to the Campag Service folks as while I can do it, it's a fiddly job requiring 3 very small hands, and the eyesight of a sniper...

I started with little to no instruction when I was around 11 or 12 - we weren't wealthy, if anything needed fixed, it was up to myself or my dad. Dad let me do things and intervened if necessary (making tools to remove different makes of block for example), but other than that, I learned from doing it.

[jezer]

I've always done my own maintenance. I find that modern bikes need less regular attention than those in the past. Up to the 80's/90's I used to strip and rebuild my bikes every year, but now I find a chain, rear block and chainrings will last at least two years with only cleaning and lubrication needed. A headset and bottom bracket will typically last five years or more. I fear some bike shops do try to cash in on newer cyclists, many of whom lack the confidence to tackle simple jobs. I bought my present summer bike in 2010, and I've covered over 22k kilometres on it. I'm about to change the chain, block and chainrings for only the second time. The brake and gear cables are all original, although I will replace them at the same time as a precaution. The bottom bracket is still running perfectly.

[ferdinand]

I suspect the costs for LBSs are *very* variable.

For labour I would expect to pay perhaps £20-25 per hour for a good bike mechanic, which is £150-200 a day - about the same as a plumber or good specialist building tradesman.

The costs for my LBS are probably around £4-4.5k a year rent for a small shop plus a backroom, plus the upstairs if he wants to use it. The setup is cramped but manageable in a secondary location near the town centre. At that size he is unlikely to have paid business rates for the last several years due to concessions for premises under £6k rateable value and may well be under the generous £1600 a week UK VAT threshold.

I can buy components cheaper than my LBS can get them most of the time.

As you say, it is all service, experience, extra services such as bike lessons, and relationships with customers.

The very much more specialist work I have just had done was by a travelling bike man who lives in a camper who is the agent for the particular product cost about the same but was wrapped up in the overall price.

Ferdinand

[nullemont]

The likes of Wiggle are buying in bulk from Shimano or a bike manufacturer who has surplus stock to move on.You may find that the part altho genuine comes in a plastic bag an indication that it has come from a bike manufacturer who is shifting surplus stock.An LBS will not get access to these deals and frequently as has been mentioned elsewhere cannot buy at trade and match the retail prices of the likes of Wiggle.

[Rhothgar]

Of course, it could also be dependant on where you are in the country. If you are London based, you are surely going to be charged more than say the Midlands.

As a matter of interest, where are you based?

I've just joined a local community bike initiative where you can do courses and learn to do your own spannering. The charge £5 an hour for loan of stand and tools and free expert advice!

[[XAP]Bob]

That's excellent value!

[ferdinand]

Of course, it could also be dependant on where you are in the country. If you are London based, you are surely going to be charged more than say the Midlands.

As a matter of interest, where are you based?

I've just joined a local community bike initiative where you can do courses and learn to do your own spannering. The charge £5 an hour for loan of stand and tools and free expert advice!

Midlands

I'd be interested in the numbers excluding overheads. Here overheads are low.

Say £15-20 an hour is comfortably above average income for the UK.

F