Derailleur quality question

[Bmblbzzz]

I find the Tiagra 9-sp on my 'road' bike changes much more smoothly than the Deore 8-sp on the mtb. I don't know quite why this is but it could be connected with the hyperglide system, where the chain starts to wrap around the next cog before it's completely left the previous one.

[fastpedaller]

actually I have for many years done more miles on IGHs than on derailleur gears. The latter are for racing, some types of touring, and some types of MTBing. Everything else -the bulk of my miles- is done on IGHs.

If you live somewhere really hilly then not any IGH will do. But for the vast majority of folk in the UK, I think that for commuting or local utility rides, they would be better off with something like a simple 3s hub gear than most other types of gearing. It is a lot less hassle.

Oddly enough I have recently built a machine with an IGH as a mid-drive. There is a modern Ultegra mech at the back, with ~12% intervals on the cassette. I use the IGH to shift about twice as often as the derailleur, even though the IGH has 33% intervals....

cheers

My 7 x 3 gives me 16 different gears between 35 and 98 inches with an average of about 6% intervals - I appreciate the close ratios (despite living in Norfolk!) .... It must be the wind!

[Brucey]

I find the Tiagra 9-sp on my 'road' bike changes much more smoothly than the Deore 8-sp on the mtb. I don't know quite why this is but it could be connected with the hyperglide system, where the chain starts to wrap around the next cog before it's completely left the previous one.

Both 8s and 9s have hyperglide but the 9s systems do shift better than the 8s ones; I think they had long enough to sort it out so it was better. When they are new, 10s systems are slicker again, but I'm not at all sure that they carry on like that before stuff wears and the shifts get sloppy.

Often there is a shift quality difference between MTB and road stuff simply because the chainrings are bigger on the road stuff; this increases the chain velocity (even if the road speed is the same) and this gives faster shifts.

cheers

[colin54]

This thread reminded me that Chain Reaction were clearing out the old model Alivio M410 for £20.99, so I've just ordered another one as a spare.Though I've just checked and they've sold out temporarily (?).

Replacement jockey wheels available for £ 6.99.

I replaced a medium RSX with a long Alivio ( to fit a lower gear) over 10,000 miles ago.

Jockey wheels still look OK to me , and it still changes nicely, I do clean jockeys and chain fairly regularly and lube pivots though, good value at this price I would say,


though elegant it ain't , as derailleurs go.

I see that Spa still sell Alivio but list as M410 /M430, the latter being the latest model number,but the picture is of the M410 ,


http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php ... 0s107p1437


Review of latest M430 here.

http://www.bike-advisor.com/reviews/shi ... lleur.html

There are some reviews of other Shimano derailleurs of various grades at the end of the above link.

[colin54]

.....and for sale here even cheaper...drat !

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/22175070 ... 0&ff14=108

[Manc33]

.....and for sale here even cheaper...drat !

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/22175070 ... 0&ff14=108

I paid £30 for mine back when and it didn't seem pricey for the quality of it.

£25 would be a good deal but the above is a bargain.

[niggle]

yup those pulleys are expensive. You can buy aluminium ones with cartridge bearings in them on ebay but they are noisy and one set of seals isn't enough; shimano ones have a shield as well as the seals on the cartridge bearing; if you regrease the bearing once every six months they last well.

With what, in hindsight, appears to be fantastic planning, but in reality is more a happy accident, I bought several M750 mechs when they were last year's model. I don't think I paid more than £30 for any of them. I also bought a couple used at a cycle jumble, for a fraction of that. I have one spare set of pulleys (cleaned and greased) that I can rotate between them; swapping pulleys takes about two minutes.

I reckon a Claris mech is good enough for most folk and costs pennies if you shop around, so I'd suggest you try one of those if you don't want to spend too much on what is, after all just a consumable part.

cheers

The XT M761 mech on my tourer is doing well- ceramic bearing top pulley and sealed bearing bottom pulley, bought for £35 from Merlin Cycles two years ago but completely obsolete at that time and nobody listing them now.

I would like a similar mech to replace the Tiagra GS mech on my road bike but now cannot find anything with those pulley bearing combinations.

[andy753]

Personally, I wouldnt look lower than Tiagra - which offers a superb weight/price/quality ratio for the money.

[niggle]

Personally, I wouldn't look lower than Tiagra - which offers a superb weight/price/quality ratio for the money.

I think that is about right for Shimano road groupsets, a bit too much steel used in Sora and Claris for my liking: the original Sora front mech on my road bike has a part aluminium, part steel clamp, whereas the clamp of the Tiagra replacement is all aluminium alloy (not a massive difference so OTOH I was perfectly happy to fit an Alivio front mech with part steel clamp on my tourer where I am less bothered about weight).

Re pulley wheels, using the 360° facility, i.e. viewing it from behind and zooming in, it definitely says ceramic on the top pulley of the M771 mech pictured on this CRC web page: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... -prod20698 and I am fairly sure it also does on the M772 top pulley: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... -prod20700 am I misunderstanding something (again )?

In road mechs the sealed and ceramic combo only comes in with Ultegra, again using the 360° view both pulleys are clearly marked: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... lsrc=aw.ds

The price of a set of Shimano sealed/ceramic pulley wheels is a bit more than the price difference between mechs that have them and mechs that do not:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191571144858? ... EBIDX%3AIT so IMO probably best to start with the more expensive mech, but if you have e.g. a good Deore mech with worn pulleys it is a judgement call really.

I'm not clear what is better about 105 compared to Tiagra, or SLX compared to Deore, when it comes to rear mechs...

[beardy]

The XT M761 mech on my tourer is doing well- ceramic bearing top pulley and sealed bearing bottom pulley, bought for £35 from Merlin Cycles two years ago but completely obsolete at that time and nobody listing them now.

I would like a similar mech to replace the Tiagra GS mech on my road bike but now cannot find anything with those pulley bearing combinations.

Dont the Ultegra and 772 that you link to in your last post satisfy that requirement? They are £37 and £35 at the moment and the price could get lower with some of CRC's discount offers.

[Bmblbzzz]

I find the Tiagra 9-sp on my 'road' bike changes much more smoothly than the Deore 8-sp on the mtb. I don't know quite why this is but it could be connected with the hyperglide system, where the chain starts to wrap around the next cog before it's completely left the previous one.

Both 8s and 9s have hyperglide but the 9s systems do shift better than the 8s ones; I think they had long enough to sort it out so it was better. When they are new, 10s systems are slicker again, but I'm not at all sure that they carry on like that before stuff wears and the shifts get sloppy.

Often there is a shift quality difference between MTB and road stuff simply because the chainrings are bigger on the road stuff; this increases the chain velocity (even if the road speed is the same) and this gives faster shifts.

cheers

Interesting point about chain velocity. Certainly makes sense — obvious even! — but I hadn't given it any thought before.

[niggle]

The XT M761 mech on my tourer is doing well- ceramic bearing top pulley and sealed bearing bottom pulley, bought for £35 from Merlin Cycles two years ago but completely obsolete at that time and nobody listing them now.

I would like a similar mech to replace the Tiagra GS mech on my road bike but now cannot find anything with those pulley bearing combinations.

Dont the Ultegra and 772 that you link to in your last post satisfy that requirement? They are £37 and £35 at the moment and the price could get lower with some of CRC's discount offers.

Yes they do appear to judging by the pictures, but up thread there were assertions that the current XT rear mechs like the M772 do not have the sealed bearing lower and ceramic bush upper pulleys. I will probably get an XT M772 to give me the option of a wide range cassette.

[Brucey]

shimano 5W7-9808 pulley set for RD-M772



looks like sealed/ceramic to me.

shimano 5XF 9806 (to fit RD-M773)

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/shimano-deore-xt-rd-m773-tension-and-guide-pulley-unit-5xf-9806-prod32392/

and 5x9 9808 (as below to fit RD-6700) look similar too;



cheers