Advice sought for rear wheel &/or hub issue

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Brucey
Posts: 44521
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Advice sought for rear wheel &/or hub issue

Post by Brucey »

John_S wrote:
1) I guess there could be damage but re: the cones I'm hoping they're the right ones because apart from the new axle and new ball bearings I'm reusing the parts...


sure, but if the old axle was a cyclo one, it was already a replacement, and it may have been installed with cycle cones attached to it, which mayn't be a good match for the hub...

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John_S
Posts: 385
Joined: 16 Sep 2014, 10:34pm

Re: Advice sought for rear wheel &/or hub issue

Post by John_S »

Hi Brucey,

Ah, that makes sense now and I guess that this is the peril of buying a secondhand bike and not knowing the full history of what has already been done to it.

I was mistakenly thinking that what I was working with was original parts but what you've said makes sense now because when I took the broken/snapped axle into the LBS the guy said that it looked like it had been tinkered with before but I didn't have time for him to elaborate because I had the kids with me and I was late for getting to where I was meant to be.

Now that you've pointed it out I realise that I'm already working with parts that have been replaced/changed in the past.

I'm still hoping that I can do a good enough job to get the bike back on the road and able to last the next 12 months or so until I can save enough for a new bike.

Cheers,

John
John_S
Posts: 385
Joined: 16 Sep 2014, 10:34pm

Re: Advice sought for rear wheel &/or hub issue

Post by John_S »

Hi again,

I've tried to finish the job of the hub overhaul whilst at the same time replacing the broken/snapped axle.

Following Brucey's advice I realised that I think that I had overtightened everything which meant that the axle didn't move.

Therefore I took everything apart again then reassembled and I made sure that the same amount of axle was protruding at each end as when I took the parts off the broken axle in the first place. When I measured the axle protrusion at each end before taking everything apart it measured 4mm on the drive side and 5mm on the non-drive side. I tightened the cones and locknuts together and the axle rotated in the hub so I was hoping that I'd solved the problem of the wheel not turning due to over tightening.

I had to use one new cone which came with the new axle because when I took the previous broken/snapped axle apart the cone on the drive side was damaged. However the new cone was the same width as the old cone that was previously on the bike. Therefore apart from the new axle and one new cone all of the components that I used where the same ones that came off the bike a few weeks ago when I first started this job. Following Brucey's advice I now appreciate that some of these (I don't know if it's some or all) components are not the original parts for the bike and so must have been replaced before I bought the bike secondhand.

Anyway I then put the freewheel back on and the axle still rotated freely and so far so good I thought just before hitting a problem. When I put the wheel back on the bike and started tightening the quick release I noticed that the chain, which was in 7th (it's a 7 speed) or the smallest sprocket but I hope 7th is the right reference, was touching the frame next to the sprocket.

Having taken the wheel off again I noticed that there was some play of the axle side to side in the hub and so I thought that this might be the problem. Therefore I took everything apart again and reassembled but this time with a bit more (only a small amount) axle protruding at each end and this eliminated the left to right/side to side play of the axle in the hub.

I then put the wheel back on the bike and again all seemed fine until I started to tighten the quick release and again with the chain in the smallest sprocket at the back, 7th I think, the chain ended up touching the frame. I can understand that if the original parts have been changed for non-matching replacements in the past then this maybe causing problems but I struggling to understand what I'm doing wrong/ where I'm going wrong because even if some of the components aren't original the bike was working as my daily commuter up until I discovered the broken axle and I hadn't changed any of the components relating to the hub/wheel since I've had the bike and I've had it for a couple of years now.

The only parts that I've changed are the new axle and use of one new cone but I'm now wondering if there were bigger problems before that I was unaware of but I've now turned up?

I've attached some photos of the state in which the old broken axle was after I cleaned it but before I took anything apart to show the cone, spacer, locknut arrangement that was on the bike since I've bought it secondhand and I've replicated when putting it all back together. I've also attached a photo of the races (not sure if that's the right term but it's what the guy from the US referred to them as in the hub overhaul video on YouTube but I wondered if it was what we'd call the cup).

If anybody has any thoughts/ideas about the problem and what I should try next that'll be great because I'm banging my head against brick wall trying to get my bike back on the road.

Thanks again,

John
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Brucey
Posts: 44521
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Advice sought for rear wheel &/or hub issue

Post by Brucey »

it may be possible to achieve the correct clearance in top gear by adding a spacer to the RHS of the axle. Cones vary in their length, so respacing is often necessary. However

- the old RH cone doesn't look like it has had a happy life

- the cup in the hub may be damaged. If this is the case often the damage first takes the form of a crack running round the cup, near where the balls run. You may need a magnifying glass to see it, but if it is there, it will surely only get worse.

As per previous posts, if you assemble the bearings bone dry and finger tighten the cones, the axle should turn without excessive binding. If the balls clearly contact the cone in a narrow line in the middle of the bearing surface, that is a good indication that they are well-matched to the hub. If the balls scuff, bind, and/or don't run in a narrow track, the cones are not well suited to the hub.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John_S
Posts: 385
Joined: 16 Sep 2014, 10:34pm

Re: Advice sought for rear wheel &/or hub issue

Post by John_S »

Hi Brucey,

Thanks for the tips.

You're right about the old RH cone having had a hard life because it was right at the point of the broken/snapped axle and had sustained damage as a result.

I'll add a spacer to the drive side and play around a bit as soon as I can to see if I can get things right.

When I take things apart I'll also pay attention to how the axle turns and how much it binds to hopefully assess whether or not the cones are suited to the hub.

Cheers,

John
John_S
Posts: 385
Joined: 16 Sep 2014, 10:34pm

Re: Advice sought for rear wheel &/or hub issue

Post by John_S »

Hi Brucey & everyone else who kindly posted replies,

I just wanted to say thanks again for all of your help & tips on the issues that I had with my rear axle/hub!

Long story short but because of holiday and then illness in the family I'd not been able to touch my bike for a few weeks until last night.

Anyway over time I had numerous attempts at taking apart the rear hub and then reassembling which never resulted in a wheel which was running freely. Anyway I persevered and continued to disassemble and reassemble over and over so I've had lots of practice and taking the hub apart now.

Finally I got it to a stage whereby it's all pretty much sorted and I rode to work this morning with no problems. The first few revolutions of pedaling were a bit odd because it felt like I was pedaling with getting forward motion as something slipped but then I realised that this sensation was the freewheel tightening itself.

With the wheel there is a tiny bit of play/wobble from side to side but it's only really slight but I didn't want to tighten the cones anymore because it seemed to be at a point whereby if they were tightened any further the axle wouldn't turn smoothly.

Given the frankenstein assembly of what seems like various mismatched parts on this bike that I bought secondhand I don't think that the result I have is a perfect as if new result. However it seems to be good enough to keep the bike going for now. This result is good enough given that I'm saving towards a new bike and didn't want to have to spend too much on new wheels to repair this bike. In the end I got the job done for under £20.

Just in case anybody else has hub issues this video link posted by milkonesugar was really helpful if you need to overhaul the hub and have a freewheel like I did (once I finally clicked and got the difference between a cassette and freewheel).

https://youtu.be/_axwV6sfaAs

I'm sure that somebody who knew what they were doing could have diagnosed the problem and fixed everything in under half an hour. For me it took a lot longer and it was try and try again but I'm glad that I persevered and feel like I've learned something as I start from scratch in trying to learn how to maintain my own bike as opposed to always having to take it to a mechanic.

Cheers,

John
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NATURAL ANKLING
Posts: 13780
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 10:43pm
Location: English Riviera

Re: Advice sought for rear wheel &/or hub issue

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
When I started I took things apart and then couldn't put them back together :)
I was probably 8 at the time :lol:
Way to go.......good job.
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy - Some day Soon I hope
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.
gregoryoftours
Posts: 2234
Joined: 22 May 2011, 7:14pm

Re: Advice sought for rear wheel &/or hub issue

Post by gregoryoftours »

Cool, I'm glad you got it sorted, and learned plenty along the way too. If you used any of your old cones then you'll never get the hub to run free and smoothly without play because the surfaces are damaged, so It sounds like you've got it as good as possible.
Brucey
Posts: 44521
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Advice sought for rear wheel &/or hub issue

Post by Brucey »

good job!

If the hub starts to make funny noises or the free play gets worse at any appreciable rate, you know to be concerned; it might last for years as it is now, only time will tell!

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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