Looking for replacement rack for topeak super tourist rack. Looking at these two Tortec racks. Need the lower pannier rails. Use commuting but also lightish touring. Thinking the higher load rated expedition rack should be stronger and more durable.
They're close in price. One is 35kg rated the other 30kg IIRC.
Is there anything significant between them? Which would you get? Any alternatives for up to £45.
Tortec expedition or epic rack?
Re: Tortec expedition or epic rack?
If you want to strap things to the top of the rack, or use a rack pack there, the Expedition has a better top platform. It's also about 50g heavier. The one on my tourer has worked fine for several years, but it is heavy. If I were buying the bike now, I'd insist on a lighter model of rack as I rarely use all that carrying capacity.
That aside, from my experience of several Tortec racks I'd just say: don't buy the black one. The bits most exposed to the sun gradually turn a dull bronze colour.
That aside, from my experience of several Tortec racks I'd just say: don't buy the black one. The bits most exposed to the sun gradually turn a dull bronze colour.
Re: Tortec expedition or epic rack?
I won't comment on those racks because I don't know them. but I can say that Tortec make good racks, neatly put together, and they may be the best at their price point. Tubus racks may be a little nicer, but only a little and probably not worth the extra cost.
If 50g buys you a significantly stronger rack I would be happy to take that tiny extra bit of weight.
If 50g buys you a significantly stronger rack I would be happy to take that tiny extra bit of weight.
Re: Tortec expedition or epic rack?
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... tAodzVYAow
The Epic... In Stainless! And this ad refers to Max load as 40kg. I recall that it looks quite tall, and the surface is kind of matt, so it doesn't look at 1st glance like stainless, actually more like aluminium, but I like stainless a lot, so would go for this.
But I have a stainless Tubus on my tourer (and a couple of tortecs and topeak around the place). Still, tempted to get one for my knockabout bike for that price.
The Epic... In Stainless! And this ad refers to Max load as 40kg. I recall that it looks quite tall, and the surface is kind of matt, so it doesn't look at 1st glance like stainless, actually more like aluminium, but I like stainless a lot, so would go for this.
But I have a stainless Tubus on my tourer (and a couple of tortecs and topeak around the place). Still, tempted to get one for my knockabout bike for that price.
Re: Tortec expedition or epic rack?
mrjemm wrote:http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/Tortec-Epic-Stainless-Steel-Rear-Rack-Silver/TORTRACK330?utm_campaign=Googlebase&utm_medium=organic&utm_source=Googlebase&gclid=CIvuiNq_icUCFULJtAodzVYAow
... Still, tempted to get one for my knockabout bike for that price.
hmmm.... it shows 'out of stock' for me....
cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Tortec expedition or epic rack?
Ah well, didn't notice that. Sorry folks.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Tortec expedition or epic rack?
i reckon at that price it is no wonder they are out of stock. I'd have gone for that one. TBH I was hoping to spend low £30s but accepting up to £40. Stainless at that price would have led me to spending that price to get it. Reckon stainless would suit my silver bike better too.
I would bet that when they come back into stock (if they do) then they will cost a lot more.
As far as load capacity goes I would say I don't even need the standard 25kg load but in my opinion a rack rated 30, 35 or 40kg is going to be better made, stronger materials and generally be more durable. That means that a stronger £42 stainless rack rated 40kg is likely to last longer / less likely to fail than a £32 alloy one rated 25kg. It is not just the load but how much of a battering it takes. I have a bad habit of leaning the bike against the rack or leaning it over on the ground.
One thing I've noticed, the shops tend to have less stock of silver racks than black ones. Having a silver bike I feel it needs a silver rack to match. That makes it harder to find one in an actual shop (prefer buying in a shop rather than over the internet).
I would bet that when they come back into stock (if they do) then they will cost a lot more.
As far as load capacity goes I would say I don't even need the standard 25kg load but in my opinion a rack rated 30, 35 or 40kg is going to be better made, stronger materials and generally be more durable. That means that a stronger £42 stainless rack rated 40kg is likely to last longer / less likely to fail than a £32 alloy one rated 25kg. It is not just the load but how much of a battering it takes. I have a bad habit of leaning the bike against the rack or leaning it over on the ground.
One thing I've noticed, the shops tend to have less stock of silver racks than black ones. Having a silver bike I feel it needs a silver rack to match. That makes it harder to find one in an actual shop (prefer buying in a shop rather than over the internet).
Re: Tortec expedition or epic rack?
I'd go for the expedition for general purpose use.
It's excellent and as mentioned above does have a large top platform.
Mine is used for heavy shopping on a hybrid and also for some short touring. I do sometimes feel a little swaying/wobbling when used for the latter when fully loaded and i think this is coming from the rack rather than the bike.
The top platform of the epic, as pointed out above, does seem smaller. Why would this be for something described as the ultimate touring rack? My tubus rack is also smaller on top.
Somewhat puzzled as to why the expedition isn't available in stainless steel (or is it?) - if it was i think i'd prefer it to my tubus.
I wouldn't use an alloy rack for a big big tour but for general purpose use i don't think you can beat the expedition. Easy to fit, great with the lower rails and a good light fixing which i consider better positioned than my tubus.
It's excellent and as mentioned above does have a large top platform.
Mine is used for heavy shopping on a hybrid and also for some short touring. I do sometimes feel a little swaying/wobbling when used for the latter when fully loaded and i think this is coming from the rack rather than the bike.
The top platform of the epic, as pointed out above, does seem smaller. Why would this be for something described as the ultimate touring rack? My tubus rack is also smaller on top.
Somewhat puzzled as to why the expedition isn't available in stainless steel (or is it?) - if it was i think i'd prefer it to my tubus.
I wouldn't use an alloy rack for a big big tour but for general purpose use i don't think you can beat the expedition. Easy to fit, great with the lower rails and a good light fixing which i consider better positioned than my tubus.
Sweep
Re: Tortec expedition or epic rack?
Tangled Metal wrote: Looking at these two Tortec racks. Need the lower pannier rails. Use commuting but also lightish touring. Thinking the higher load rated expedition rack should be stronger and more durable.
Lightish touring? That stainless steel Epic weighs more than 1Kg!
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tor-tec-epic ... prod29059/
For another £20 or so you could get the Tubus stainless steel Cosmo and save 338g. Also Rated at 40Kg
http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/tubu ... aid:193899
You'll never save a cheaper 338g.
Re: Tortec expedition or epic rack?
Tubus usually understate weights. SJS say the stainless Cosmo weighs 890g with fittings.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Tortec expedition or epic rack?
I've been talking about the alloy ones at typically £30ish for exped and epic racks. The Ribble site had the stainless at £42 which
for only £20 over my expected top price was a tempting option if it had been on stock. In the UK retailers you struggle to get the Tubus Cosmo for less than £100 that I can see. Even £61 plus £7.60 transport from Rose (a German company is it?) you are talking a big enough increase just for a small weight benefit.
I reckon I am not at all overweight but could easily spare about 5kg if saving 338g is that critical. It is being carried on the bike, like my weight, so combine it all together and it is a small percentage increase. I know it all adds up but it all comes down to a realistic cost per weight saved I think. At least that was my thinking with backpacking, where it is all carried on my back so does make it worse I reckon.
BTW my view with backpacking was a magical sub 10kg pack meant for comfort. I think I will find a total weight for kit on the bike (kit plus me I guess) where comfort is sufficient for me to no longer need to bother with weight loss of kit. I just need to find that out. What do you guys think? Is there a total weight limit for your kit where it has so little impact that you might as well be on a simple day ride? With backpacking circles there was a 10kg base load weight which people considered to have no more of an effort penalty over a simple day pack weight. I did notice that when I dropped from a total weight of 28kg once to about 15kg (base load plus food plus 2kg of water - base load is kit without food or water). When I got down to 6.5kg and a 20 litre sack I was bouncing along all day without even noticing my pack (even took a short run with it on one solo trip because I was feeling good.
One thing, do some include the fittings in the weights and some don't? Might be cycnical here but you get some tent brands giving out weights excluding poles, pegs and bags. Could there be this going on with the rack weights?
for only £20 over my expected top price was a tempting option if it had been on stock. In the UK retailers you struggle to get the Tubus Cosmo for less than £100 that I can see. Even £61 plus £7.60 transport from Rose (a German company is it?) you are talking a big enough increase just for a small weight benefit.
I reckon I am not at all overweight but could easily spare about 5kg if saving 338g is that critical. It is being carried on the bike, like my weight, so combine it all together and it is a small percentage increase. I know it all adds up but it all comes down to a realistic cost per weight saved I think. At least that was my thinking with backpacking, where it is all carried on my back so does make it worse I reckon.
BTW my view with backpacking was a magical sub 10kg pack meant for comfort. I think I will find a total weight for kit on the bike (kit plus me I guess) where comfort is sufficient for me to no longer need to bother with weight loss of kit. I just need to find that out. What do you guys think? Is there a total weight limit for your kit where it has so little impact that you might as well be on a simple day ride? With backpacking circles there was a 10kg base load weight which people considered to have no more of an effort penalty over a simple day pack weight. I did notice that when I dropped from a total weight of 28kg once to about 15kg (base load plus food plus 2kg of water - base load is kit without food or water). When I got down to 6.5kg and a 20 litre sack I was bouncing along all day without even noticing my pack (even took a short run with it on one solo trip because I was feeling good.
One thing, do some include the fittings in the weights and some don't? Might be cycnical here but you get some tent brands giving out weights excluding poles, pegs and bags. Could there be this going on with the rack weights?
Re: Tortec expedition or epic rack?
The Cosmo would not save you 338g, if SJS are correct. More like 135g. But personally I would not want a bag on my back while cycling. I want the bike to carry the load. Why be more uncomfortable than you need to be?
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Tortec expedition or epic rack?
Sorry if my post was misleading. I was trying to compare cycling loads with what I do have more experience with, namely backpacking where you carry everything on your back.
Basically I accept weight is important with touring comfort but in my experience with backpacking it is not a linear realationship but more a step like relationship. You will hit certain reduced weights were the load just feels a lot better. With me when I was backpacking I found 10kg to be a limit that once below you notice a significant comfort improvement. At about that weight your pack becomes less of an issue than above it. I was wondering if cycle touring had the same affect. SO that a 40kg load on your bike felt like the bike handles like a dog but dropping to 30kg it suddenly becomes a sweet ride again. Of course that depends on the bike in a similar way to the backpacker. I know of people for whome 15-20kg on their back is nothing, others even 10kg is a heavy load. In the same way a road bike could not handle (for the sake of argument) 10 kg but an expedition can handle 45 kg. Just speculation in my mind.
Basically I accept weight is important with touring comfort but in my experience with backpacking it is not a linear realationship but more a step like relationship. You will hit certain reduced weights were the load just feels a lot better. With me when I was backpacking I found 10kg to be a limit that once below you notice a significant comfort improvement. At about that weight your pack becomes less of an issue than above it. I was wondering if cycle touring had the same affect. SO that a 40kg load on your bike felt like the bike handles like a dog but dropping to 30kg it suddenly becomes a sweet ride again. Of course that depends on the bike in a similar way to the backpacker. I know of people for whome 15-20kg on their back is nothing, others even 10kg is a heavy load. In the same way a road bike could not handle (for the sake of argument) 10 kg but an expedition can handle 45 kg. Just speculation in my mind.
Re: Tortec expedition or epic rack?
A couple of hundred grams won't be noticed anywhere except the tyres and wheels. But given the choice of equally good kit and paying slightly more to save a small amount of weight I'll do it. Save a small bit of weight on half a dozen items and it adds up.
Big weight savings are from elimination though. Go from 4 panniers to two and as well as the gear you are no longer carrying the weight of a rack and 2 panniers is gone.
Though if saving weight on a rack my choice is the Tubus Cargo (695g with fittings according to SJS). I'm sacrificing the lower rails of course but my touring set up is my tent strapped lengthways on my rack so it fits between the two rear panniers. I'm happy to always use the top rails.
Big weight savings are from elimination though. Go from 4 panniers to two and as well as the gear you are no longer carrying the weight of a rack and 2 panniers is gone.
Though if saving weight on a rack my choice is the Tubus Cargo (695g with fittings according to SJS). I'm sacrificing the lower rails of course but my touring set up is my tent strapped lengthways on my rack so it fits between the two rear panniers. I'm happy to always use the top rails.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Tortec expedition or epic rack?
This weight saving lark always amuses me. I was in a local bike shop where this guy was buying a fancy lightweight road bike. He was swapping out components to reduce weight. Indeed he asked for these very lightweight wheels trying to save a small amount of weight but being a big and overweight bloke it was reasonable to expect he was over the top weight limit on those wheels (might have got away with it but his warrany would be void. The salesman tried to tell him it was the wrong wheels and he got shall we say agitated when the assistant politely told him he was over the warranty weight limit so that it would be better to go for stronger wheels despite the weight penalty.
Now if this story was not true I can easily believe it. People,with the disposable income and desire to do so, will spend a lot more to save a 50g or even 100g here and there but not able or willing to lose the couple of stone off their waistline. Not saying you are overweight, I do not know you obviously to be able to say that nor would I - not my place, but a lot of people are able to stand a bit of weight loss such that it would have a noticeable effect on their cycling performance. Which is more noticeable, 50 or 100g from wheels or 2 stone from you? I don't know but I would be curious to find out.
Now if this story was not true I can easily believe it. People,with the disposable income and desire to do so, will spend a lot more to save a 50g or even 100g here and there but not able or willing to lose the couple of stone off their waistline. Not saying you are overweight, I do not know you obviously to be able to say that nor would I - not my place, but a lot of people are able to stand a bit of weight loss such that it would have a noticeable effect on their cycling performance. Which is more noticeable, 50 or 100g from wheels or 2 stone from you? I don't know but I would be curious to find out.