How can you lose a chain?

[Brucey]

. The offending article was lying in the gutter, very sad and dirty with a completely broken link. Not worth the effort of repair, I left the poor thing where it was as I had no means of carrying it without completely fouling up my gloves and clothing. .

.... always carry a plastic bag and ride in flat shoes.

I normally curse litter louts but I have used a discarded crisp packet to handle and even carry a dirty chain before now. SPDs are an even better idea than normal under these circumstances...

cheers

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
And dont rely on them magic wotsitmathingumys..............but if you do, carry some spare and an old piece or new even of chain, its not unknown to twist a chain link (the chain proper) then you really are &^%%$£.

[CREPELLO]

<off topic> Mick, did you manage to mount your new Ambrosio rims using the existing spokes and nipples? Is the ERD the same?

[DaveP]

Glad you and Bike are ok Mick.
Whatever happened obviously occurred on the "return leg" from the chain wheel back to the rear mech. If it hadn't completely fallen away your rear mech, and possibly your rear wheel would have been pretty strange shapes in short order.
Just to confirm. I fitted some chains with KMC missing links recently and I noticed then that the advice was to only use them 3 times. I don't recall seeing that in the past, Ive just split my chains whenever I felt like it. My (unprovable) feeling is that the manufacturers may have changed something recently, hence the previously unnoticed advice. But it is equally possible that the new advice is a response to other incidents.
As I look after four bikes I will find it a major pain to keep track of how many times the chains have been split. I'll use up my existing stock of missing links quite quickly and then... Are Wipperman Connex links reuseable indefinitely?

[Mick F]

..... you had a chain, it was just lying back in the road. I would have walked back to get it there and then....

What happened was .............

I was going down a LONG hill, freewheeling at circa 30mph. I made it to the bottom of the hill, and started ascending the next. It was only then that I noticed my chain wasn't there. I freewheeled to a stop 100yds uphill on the wrong side of the road for freewheeling (without a chain) back down. From there, I walked.

Whilst walking, I was looking for my chain and didn't find it.

Because of the tight bends in the road, and that I was walking and pushing a bike on a busy A road with high banks either side and no walkway in the slightest, I had to be on the outside of the bends but could only cross when the traffic allowed. By the time I made it up to the top of the hill where I obviously last had my chain connected, I hadn't seen it.

I had no idea where to look, and I had no idea if a vehicle had run over it and flung it over the hedge.
Screenshot of a BikeHike image of my freewheeling. Start of trace is probably where I last pedalled, and end point is where I eventually found my chain.

Here's another screenshot of where I eventually turned round.

That's 0.74miles vs 1.16miles. ie I'd gone nearly another half mile and had no idea where the chain was.

After getting home, I fitted a spare chain and retraced my ride, and found the chain.

I found it on the crest of this bend near the trees.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Gulwor ... 2,135,,0,0

[MartinC]

... Are Wipperman Connex links reuseable indefinitely?

I've never really thought about this deeply but I think my expectation has always been that there must be a finite and small number of times you can reliably use a removable link. IIRC when SRAM first used them they didn't mention a limit but then they started to say once for 9 or was it 10 speed ones? Now KMC are saying 3 times. MickF and others are now supplying the empirical evidence too.

Given the amount of metal you're able to use in removable link on a narrow chain it does seem unreasonable to expect them to survive many couplings. Using link pliers to undo them must be more unkind than doing it by hand too. I think we just have to regard them as disposable after a couple of uses.

[[XAP]Bob]

Undoing them should pose no problems. There is insignificant wear generated by said action.

If you have to bend them, then maybe.

If they are very dirty and require forcing, then maybe...

[Brucey]

... Are Wipperman Connex links reuseable indefinitely?

I've never really thought about this deeply but I think my expectation has always been that there must be a finite and small number of times you can reliably use a removable link. IIRC when SRAM first used them they didn't mention a limit but then they started to say once for 9 or was it 10 speed ones? Now KMC are saying 3 times.... ..... I think we just have to regard them as disposable after a couple of uses.

with SRAM links there is an explanation; they started with a thing called 'powerlink' and now we have 'powerlock' which are a different wee beastie even though they look similar. The latter go together with a definite snap action and the applied loads to make and unmake the link are not insignificant. I would not expect to be able to re-use the powerlock links many times over.

I don't know how this compares with every other type of missing link but I think that most of them are toleranced so that they do snap together, either such that the link can't be made easily even when the parts are not in the chain, or such that the width of the inner link impedes the joining link such that it needs a lateral squeeze to get it on or off. In some cases I would expect the loads to be high enough that repeated re-use could be risky.

cheers

[Mick F]

<off topic> Mick, did you manage to mount your new Ambrosio rims using the existing spokes and nipples? Is the ERD the same?

Off topic?
Good grief!
I'm the master at this!

Yes, I did use the same spokes but needed one new nipple coz one was damaged by the new China eyelet.
The ERDs aren't the same, though I never measured the Ambrosios. The nipples screwed in a long way.

What I did, was to strap the new front rim to the old front wheel and transfer the spokes and nipples across. I figured that if they all screwed in ok and the new wheel was ok ish, I could tighten up and see how it went.

First, after transferring everything, I screwed all the nipples to two threads showing. The wheel was terribly floppy.
I then screwed all the nipples so the top of all the spokes were level with the bottom of the slots in the tops of the nipples. The wheel wasn't floppy and I was confident that a few more turns would be nice and tight.

I took it a quarter of a turn on each nipple all the way round, then another one and still another one. By the time the wheel was tight, the spokes showed through the tops of the nipples but not too far and there was still more thread left to go further.

I then made up the rear wheel (from scratch because I had all the spokes out) fairly confident that as the front one was ok, the rear one would be too ............ and it was.

Yes, the ERDs were less, but my spokes fitted just fine. I was pernickety with respect to NOT having threads showing on the Chrinas, so the spokes were long not short. I guess the ERD is a few mm less than Chrina, but only a few. Can't be accurate on this, because my last "pair" of Chrinas had different ERDs by a few mms.

Also, one new tyres went on the Ambrosio very tightly, and the other went on reasonably tightly, but there was a definite difference. Tyre or rim? Don't know, but there was a difference.

[cycleruk]

Also, one new tyres went on the Ambrosio very tightly, and the other went on reasonably tightly, but there was a definite difference. Tyre or rim? Don't know, but there was a difference.

So now you need to take the tyres off and swap them over. That should prove tyre or rim difference ?

[CREPELLO]

Thanks for that info Mick. I also decided to buy some Ambrosio Excellence rims from Bike24, so hopefully one day when I change the old Chrina's for them it'll be a straight swap. Back on topic - as you were!

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Reuse of quicklink.
We have discussed this many times in posts in the past, I have pointed out to always use a new one.
Now we are discussing that it might wear (retaining feature) due to the fact that it has to be forced to assemble / dismantle.

Should'nt circlips that are pence but hold a part / locate on fast rotating parts be always not reused..................

Chain mounting, simple, most important to stay on, but require your best safe attention...........always.

[Mick F]

If I were to use a new KMC Missing Link every time I cleaned a chain, KMC would be rubbing their hands with glee.

Let us say that one of my chains lasts 5,000miles. That's easy, coz they do easily, but it's a nice round number.
I clean my chains maybe every 150miles, sometimes (rarely) much further depending on if I'm away from home, but let's say 200miles for round numbers.

5,000 divided by 200 is 25. ie Twenty-five NEW Missing Links per chain.
KMC Missing Links are £5.50 for two.
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... 0000000000

That makes £68.75 per chain.

[foxyrider]

If I were to use a new KMC Missing Link every time I cleaned a chain, KMC would be rubbing their hands with glee.

Let us say that one of my chains lasts 5,000miles. That's easy, coz they do easily, but it's a nice round number.
I clean my chains maybe every 150miles, sometimes (rarely) much further depending on if I'm away from home, but let's say 200miles for round numbers.

5,000 divided by 200 is 25. ie Twenty-five NEW Missing Links per chain.
KMC Missing Links are £5.50 for two.
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... 0000000000

That makes £68.75 per chain.

I couldn't afford the time to do it every 150 miles, I'd be doing it three times a fortnight across the summer! From what I've been reading the recommendation is replace the missing links after three uses, its rare one of my chains is removed that many times before replacement - I may use a less intensive cleaning programme than Mick F (they are cleaned on the bike usually) but the chains only do about 2000 miles as a rule before being binned and that could be a £50 Campag chain or a £5 Sram!

[Mick F]

I couldn't afford the time to do it every 150 miles, I'd be doing it three times a fortnight across the summer!

Yeah, so?
Once a week is easy.
Five minute job with a modern Quick Link.
Use at least two chains. One on and one in the wash.

Believe me, back in my commuting days, I was cleaning my Sedisport 6sp chains every week and I used a chain tool each and every time to take the chain off and back on. In those days, I could only afford one chain at a time.

On the rare occasions that I wasn't doing it weekly, I would pay for it in cogs and chains.