Saddle height

[robing]

I know this is an old chestnut, but what do people use for working out their optimum saddle height? I've had knee problems so have mine slslightly lower. My saddle to pedal axle distance is1.06 x my inside leg.

[pwa]

Start by using the suggested formulae, then adjust to suit your own body. If you are getting problems with knees, tendons, etc, something may need tweaking with your saddle or cleats. Can you be more specific about your aches and pains?

When you finally get a set-up that works for you, measure everything, note it down carefully, and repeat on every bike you get.

[LollyKat]

Having the saddle too low may make your knees hurt more - it certainly does mine.

The best method I have found (i.e. it works perfectly for me) is this one:

Get dressed in your biking outfit and sit on the bike with bike shoes clicked into the pedals. Then, extend your leg to the farthest reach of the crank on either side (crank arm exactly in-line with your seatube). Lock your knee back, putting your leg at full extension and check the angle of your foot relative to the ground. Your foot should be parallel to the ground, with both your heel and ball of foot at the same level.

....you might think it will give a seat too high with knee joint locking out at full extension. This is not the case because everyone toes down slightly at the bottom of the pedal stroke. This slight pointing down of the foot changes your effective leg length just enough to give a few degrees of knee bend at the bottom of the pedal stroke.

Good luck.

[robing]

Interesting. I had acl reconstruction in one knee, which is fine. In the other knee I have had a meniscal tear which has caused me many problems. I'm going for my 3rd surgery on it next week and hoping they can sort it. I had lots of knee pain in this knee from cycling. With a lot of trial and error and some research I have found my ideal saddle height to be 106% rather than the often quoted 109. I have completed long distance tours with this set up but a minor injury has made my knee blow up again, hence another op.

[MikeF]

Mine work out at around 1.06 x barefoot crutch height, but I don't know if this means a lot. It varies slightly on different bikes, but not as high as 1.09. Perhaps my saddles are too low?

[Valbrona]

Feel. Trial and error.

[531colin]

I have recently updated this old thread...http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74985..
I disagree with Lolly Kats saddle height setting, I think its too high for the reasons set out in the thread.....for a short event on smooth roads without too many hills, when you start warmed up you could get away with setting your saddle like that for maximum power.....for riding including off-road and all the other variables encountered day to day I think its a bad idea.
You can always slide back for maximum power to crest a rise, or whatever

I had a medial meniscal tear tidied up arthroscopically several years ago and never looked back.
Get on Amazon and find books by Vivian Grisogono about knees....best money I ever spent.
Vastus Medialis deteriorates amazingly quickly when you are injured, and needs straight-leg isometric quads. exercises.
Never never ever exercise on a swollen knee.

[fluffybunnyuk]

I go for leg almost fully extended but not quite. Bit like a piston working. The stroke is 98% of maximum. Never had knee pain.

[Heltor Chasca]

I also get sore knees from a low saddle. I've tried the plumb bob/knee/pedal trick and that got me fairly close. It is amazing: I set my saddle just 7mm too high and I had a stiff back for days...hc

[CJ]

Mine work out at around 1.06 x barefoot crutch height, but I don't know if this means a lot. It varies slightly on different bikes, but not as high as 1.09. Perhaps my saddles are too low?

No. The 1.09 figure comes from a very short duration maximum power trial conducted by Loughborough University, that bears no relation to what works best and is healthy in the long run. Leg length plus about 5% (with the emphasis on 'about') is much more like it.

[Brucey]

FWIW I have known a low saddle cause more knee problems than a slightly high one.

There is a reasonable summary of saddle height setting methods here;

http://www.bikefitting.com/english/theory/saddleheight.aspx

Of these I think that the most practical method is to start somewhere and then check if there is one or more fault of some kind.

So if the saddle is too low;

- the back is hunched (rather than flat) when you are on the drops
- the knee angle is always too bent at the bottom of the pedal stroke (i.e. the leg is never as straight as is required to keep the vastus medialis in good working order, and thus prevent a sideways imbalance on the patella)
- the ankle joint is never extended in the slightest, so the heel is low even at the bottom of the pedal stroke

If the saddle is too high;

- the knee goes too straight at the bottom of the pedal stroke
- the toe is pointed down too much all the time, or the ankling movement must be exaggerated to maintain a good pedal action
- the pelvis rocks from side to side. This is most easily seen from behind (with thin clothing on), and is probably the most reliable indicator of a saddle that is too high, because people will habitually articulate their ankles/knees differently, but not rock their pelvis unless they have no choice.

Given a choice I'd vote for starting out slightly too high and then lowering the saddle until the pelvis no longer rocks. Over time a pedalling technique can change, so I think that it pays to raise the saddle 0.5cm once or twice a year and see if the pelvis starts to rock or not. If it does, stick it down again.

If I had to choose any of the techniques on the linked page as a starting point then I'd choose Genzling's, albeit with a caveat that the shoe/pedal height can change things. On clips and straps (as per back in the day) Genzling is almost spot on for me, but with SPDs it is an underestimate; the SPD pedals and shoes stack my foot up higher. Similarly a softer saddle can upset things too.

Interestingly with slightly longer cranks than normal for me (say 175 vs 170mm) I leave the saddle height the same above the BB; it appears that I don't pedal well on the longer cranks unless I ankle more.

cheers

[MikeF]

Leg length plus about 5% (with the emphasis on 'about') is much more like it.

That's good to know for if I take the added height of the soles of the shoes into account for the "leg length", it must be around 1.05.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

hI,

I also get sore knees from a low saddle. I've tried the plumb bob/knee/pedal trick and that got me fairly close. It is amazing: I set my saddle just 7mm too high and I had a stiff back for days...hc

7mm is a mile for seat height.
The plum bob trick, KOPS does not set your saddle height.

[robing]

I have recently updated this old thread...http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74985.

I had a medial meniscal tear tidied up arthroscopically several years ago and never looked back.
Get on Amazon and find books by Vivian Grisogono about knees....best money I ever spent.
Vastus Medialis deteriorates amazingly quickly when you are injured, and needs straight-leg isometric quads. exercises.
Never never ever exercise on a swollen knee.

Hi Colin,

How long was your recovery and how soon were you back on the bike?

And thanks for the tip on Vivian Grisogono.

[LollyKat]

I have recently updated this old thread...http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74985..
I disagree with Lolly Kats saddle height setting, I think its too high for the reasons set out in the thread.....

Well, I did say it works for me personally - but we are all different.

I go for leg almost fully extended but not quite. Bit like a piston working. The stroke is 98% of maximum. Never had knee pain.

I have read more than once (though of course can't remember where) that when pedalling women can extend their leg more than men - who knows.

The Holmes method described here recommends an knee joint angle (at the bottom of the pedal stroke) of 25 - 35 degrees, and generally closer to 25 degrees. I must try and measure mine sometime.