Future tech, could 12 spd solve the touring cassette problem

[Mick F]

I don't mind closer ratios so long as I have plenty of them. In fact I quite like them.
Dunno about anyone else, but I "block change" rather than use the gears in order.
I flick one, two, three, or more at a time up or down. There's always a ratio not far away to suit.

I often only change the front, so I have a sort of 3sp unit. Sometimes I change both the front and the rear at the same time. I do it all without thinking.

[wirral_cyclist]

11-34 is enough for anyone on an upwrong.
How about a 50/39/28(or similar) triple with it?

I have 48/36/24 and 11-34 and the outer chainring is decorative, and the 11/12 tooth are unworn as they're never used, a lot of us need lower gears to spin fast (I can do 80-95 all day everyday) albeit at a lowly 10-12mph touring average, and also have at least some modest hill ability.

I think I'm a 'cyclist' and do a bit but I cannot use big gears and nor should I be forced too!

On my LEJog (4 stages) I walked one hill in Cornwall (though did stop for photographs ), one hill somewhere in Wales near Wentnor had me tipping backwards so I walked that too! but I did ride up Shap OK - but I was on my limit and my lowest ratio.

I managed over 3000 miles last year (16 a day for my season) and that wouldn't have been possible if I was forced to use a 'roadie' geared bike as 50% of that mileage was touring. If you make it seem that anyone must be able to use 'whatever' (usually a double, very occasionally a compact) then bike tours will seem beyond ordinary people and then they may end up driving all of our lovely back roads on a motorised tour and that would soon spoil your enjoyment.

Stop insisting that us weaklings should be OK on 'so and so' gearing or man up/try harder, either give advice on low gear set ups or say nothing.

[foxyrider]

maybe one of these 42 tooth rear sprockets is the grail?

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Oneup-Comp ... -2014.html

[merseymouth]

Hi There, I can't see it fitting inside my Trike Axle Cage? . But seriously why Oh why do they keep making such stupid cassettes, 11t - 12t start? Why can't I get a 14t - 28t 9 speed item? TTFN MM

[Tigerbiten]

Hi There, I can't see it fitting inside my Trike Axle Cage? . But seriously why Oh why do they keep making such stupid cassettes, 11t - 12t start? Why can't I get a 14t - 28t 9 speed item? TTFN MM

Probably because a 14t sprocket would rub on the ends of the chainstays on some bikes.
So it's easier to build a one size cassette that fits all no matter what.

[beardy]

14-25 are reasonably available.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... rp-prod387

so I dont think that is their reasoning.

More likely it is somewhere between the camps of maximum gear range or minimum steps that isnt considered a large enough group to stock cassettes for.

[Mick F]

If it were possible, the cassette could be a cone.
That way, the ratios would be infinitely variable and selectable within the range available and everyone could be catered for.
All you would need to specify, would be the angle/slope of the cone.

Therefore, if you wanted 8sp, your gear selector could be set for it. Anyone wanting 10sp could have their's set for it, and anyone who wanted 14sp ..................

[beardy]

Then you would get people who spend most of their time riding on the flat (where they want close ratio) who also want a cassette with the ability to tackle a few hills and can live with larger gaps at the lower geared end of things.

Shimano are noticeably more conical than the SRAM equivalents which tend to do more as I just described.

[Brucey]

If it were possible, the cassette could be a cone.
That way, the ratios would be infinitely variable and selectable within the range available and everyone could be catered for.
All you would need to specify, would be the angle/slope of the cone.

Therefore, if you wanted 8sp, your gear selector could be set for it. Anyone wanting 10sp could have their's set for it, and anyone who wanted 14sp ..................

and you could have a rubber band to drive it and....oops.... just reinvented the DAF variomatic....

or the NuVinci....?

cheers

[Elizabethsdad]

If it were possible, the cassette could be a cone.
That way, the ratios would be infinitely variable and selectable within the range available and everyone could be catered for.
All you would need to specify, would be the angle/slope of the cone.

Therefore, if you wanted 8sp, your gear selector could be set for it. Anyone wanting 10sp could have their's set for it, and anyone who wanted 14sp ..................

and you could have a rubber band to drive it and....oops.... just reinvented the DAF variomatic....

or the NuVinci....?

cheers

Got a Nuvinci on my Bakfiets long john - to quote BoJo "It's very, very nce!"

[merseymouth]

Hi there, Now find that Miche do 13t - 28t in 9 speed and 15t - 27t in 10 speed, so I may have a route to go. My 10 speed trike employs a 15t - 25t, but that 27t bottom would be better for my aging legs .TTFN MM

[Keezx]

So if the big S goes its usual route of one more every 3 or 4 years how long will it be before 12 speed is a reality?
will the cassettes finally give more options to tourists without the large jumps between sprockets?

Drop the useless 11 and 12 and there you are.

[CJ]

IF somewhere in a distant reality you thought you'd maybe go to 12 speed (and durability/cost wasn't an issue) what would your perfect ratios be. Mine for everyday use would be 50/36 & 11-30 (11/12/13/14/15/17/19/21/23/25/27/30 & for touring purposes would be 50/36/24 & 12-32 (12/13/14/15/17/19/21/23/25/27/29/32).

That's unusually (and unnecessarily IMHO) fine tuning for touring. The human engine has a pretty flat peak on it's power/rpm curve. Cadence variations of plus or minus 10% will not make more than 1% difference to your efficiency/comfort, so unless one is racing to keep pace with some other person who's going too fast, gears at intervals of 15% or so are as close as anyone needs.

So there is no touring cassette problem. The widest available (i.e. 11-34 and 12-36) 9-speed cassettes are just fine. I even use one for clubruns: when I AM sometimes struggling to keep up (with old racers still trying to prove something!), but still do not crave an in-between gear - or fool myself it would be any easier if I had one.

But if one does insist, there's always 10-speed.

[BigG]

I agree absolutely wth CJ - and Brucey's earlier post - that narrow gear gaps are not only unnecessary for touring or leisure cycling but also unhelpful. In my experience, gaps of less than about 10% are not worth the bother. 15% gaps seem about right IMO as this allows cadence to be kept between - say - 60 and 70 at any chosen work rate/road speed. Indeed, 20% gaps at the bottom end are for me quite acceptable in the gear region where having a gear low enough takes precedence over having an ideal cadence. As it happens, my currently preferred 7 speed cassette has roughly 20% gaps from 13 to 41 teeth (the latter available on ebay) and I simply use a half-step with this to select an intermediate gear for the occasions when the gaps seem a bit large. This happens less often than you might think in the rolling countryside around the Exe valley where gradients don't stay constant for more than a few hundred yards at a time.

[keyboardmonkey]

er, which touring cassette problem is that then...?

cheers

To be fair to the OP quite a few on this forum have thought it to be a problem, up to 9sp at least: "Nightmare with Shimano intermediate ratios" viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54328 referred to by 531colin runs to three pages of gripes. Colin, reohn2, and me (http://cycleseven.org/customising-shima ... e-cassette) are among those who have found an 11T to be annoyingly useless on a wide ratio cassette, and also felt there to be an equally annoying jump between, say, the 18 & 21 or 17 & 20 sprockets:

Here is what I bought....11 13 15 17 20 23 26 30 34
The 17/20 shift gets me every time, doesn't matter if I'm going up or down, its a big jump...

and even

... A 12/36 plus an 11/34 can easily be reassembled as a 12-14-16-18-20-23-26-30-34 (or 36). This only moves the 3 tooth jump up one place, but it is surprising what a difference this makes. I have done something very similar but without the 12 tooth sprocket and using the 9 speed spacing to get 8 speeds on a 7 speed freehub. The purchase of a 19 tooth sprocket on eBay allowed me to assemble 2 (for me) excellent cassettes, a 13-15-17-19-21-24-28-34 and a 14-16-18-20-23-26-30-36. The gaps at the top and bottom are a little large, but these are an overdive and a granny which I find acceptable. The mid range (with a triple) has no serious gaps. Of course, the two large sprockets could be changed from 34 and 36 to 32 and 34 removing one more large gap - but I like my granny gear.

That's why a lot of us customised our 9sp cassettes, wasn't it? My preferred 9sp custom cassette was 13/15/17/19/21/23/26/30/34. I put off the three-tooth jump for as long as possible, basically at a point where I wouldn't be looking to jump three teeth when on the 50T chainring. Like 531colin - and presumably a few others - I didn't care for that jump given on a stock cassette.

But if one does insist, there's always 10-speed.

My 10sp XT cassette was, rather gratifyingly, 11/13/15/17/19/21/23/26/30/34. My only customising was to swap out the 11T for an 12T.

(Yes, the 10sp chain is a bit skinnier, but at least the rear wheel is no more dished than 8sp or 9sp. 11sp on the other hand...)

Even Dawes have gone over to 10sp on at least some of their Galaxy models. Realistically, I don't know how they could avoid it - at the moment at least. I'm not sure what will happen if or when manufacturers can't get hold of sufficient stock of 10sp kit given that Shimano aren't currently offering a triple option on their 11sp road groupsets. But us tourists are used to making do and finding workarounds, so I suppose we'll find a way to carry on doing just that...