Spoke lengths for old wheels.

[Vetus Ossa]

Hi all.

Apologies in advanced for what may well be a long drawn out question.

I have just acquired a pair of old wheels, Campagnolo S/F hubs, on Mavic Molule E2 rims, both drilled 36 hole and are for 700c tyres.
When I fitted the rear wheel to the frame it was obvious the rim was not cantered properly as the tyre was touching the left hand chain stay. Upon investigation I noticed that the none drive side spokes had been renewed with new stainless ones, the drive side were the probably original chrome ones, which need replacing, so I removed one to measure it. It was far from easy to remove without some awful bending, so figured something must be wrong somewhere. It turns out the none drive side is 4x and the drive side 3x…I don’t even understand how that can work but it does.
I figure it’s probably best to just rebuild it completely 3x, so the good (new) none drive spokes will be too long won’t they?
So I need to buy 36 new spokes, and need to get the left and right lengths correct as I don’t want to buy them twice.
I have never found a spoke length calculator that I understand so would be more than pleased if someone could make this easy for me please

[tatanab]

First things first, are they 27" or 700C rims?

[SimonCelsa]

Try Roger Musson's calculator,

just enter a few pretty simple measurements & press 'calculate'. Appears to be a fairly comprehensive help guide as well, you do not need to understand pythagorus, algebra, differential equations etc.

link here: http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc

hope that helps

all the best Simon

[fastpedaller]

You can measure the length of the driveside spoke (the 3 cross side). Get 18 new spokes of that length, and 18 for the NDS that are 2mm longer - that will be correct for 3 cross both sides for regular dishing (give or take the odd 1mm which will be irrelevant ) From memory (please do your own calcs) for your rim/hub combination you will need 296 DS and 298 NDS.

[Brucey]

my memory tells me the same thing as Fastpedaller (296 + 298mm), and (comfortingly) this spoke calculator for one

https://leonard.io/edd/

agrees.

I like Module E2 rims. If they still made them, I would buy them.

If you are pernickety about such things you can buy reproduction MAVIC transfers of the correct type for these rims from H Lloyd.

cheers

[Vetus Ossa]

Thanks all for your valuable advice. I found some Campag hub measurements which I will assume are accurate, and used a rim ERD of 614, which I am less sure about and that gave lengths of 297.1 and 296.2mm so in the right ball park. I have tightened the drive side spokes up and the wheel now sits between the centre of the chain stays and the 295mm ones looks a tad short so will get the ones you suggest Brucey if I can. The transfers are in pretty good nick and though the hub and rims are dull they will clean up nicely I think.

Thanks again guys

[Vetus Ossa]

Oops, credit due to you too fastpedaller for coming up with the measurements in the first place.

[Vetus Ossa]

Next question….how about Sapim Race double butted spokes. Available and not too expensive?

[Keezx]

I buy them here:
https://www.derks-wielersport.nl/spaken ... &results=3

Unbeatable price, but don't know if they send abroad.

[fastpedaller]

Next question….how about Sapim Race double butted spokes. Available and not too expensive?

I really like the Sapim spokes myself. IMHO butted spokes are more durable than plain gauge!

[Vetus Ossa]

I’ve been looking at maybe getting DT Swiss spokes for this wheel. Now they come with 14mm nipples. Is the thread inside the nipple the same length as a 12mm one or would I need shorter spokes?

[fastpedaller]

I've never found it a problem - just used the correct length spokes. The hole in the 'sharp end' of the DT nipples is drilled for clearance, so there is no thread for the first 2mm.

[Vetus Ossa]

Thanks FP, I did wonder if that was so.

[robc02]

I found some Campag hub measurements which I will assume are accurate, and used a rim ERD of 614, which I am less sure about and that gave lengths of 297.1 and 296.2mm

I would be wary about measurement found online. It's always a good idea to check them yourself, likewise rim ERD. The help guide on Roger Musson's Wheelpro site shows you how to get them for use with his calculator. Of course, you have the advantage that you have a wheel to check calculated measurements against.

[Des49]

Next question….how about Sapim Race double butted spokes. Available and not too expensive?

Beware of Sapim spokes, seem to suffer from material defects and prematurely break in places they shouldn't.
My experiences are with Sapim Race. An internet search does throw up a few references to this issue.

I certainly don't want to build with them anymore and will stick to DT.