assembly of daytona rear hub

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aljohn
Posts: 59
Joined: 7 Sep 2012, 9:39pm

assembly of daytona rear hub

Post by aljohn »

I put this as a new post 'cos I'm sure my campag daytona hub has sealed bearings. I just want to see the procedure for assembling them. I took them apart a couple of months ago, and on assembly when tightening the cassette lockring there is a graunching sound... I slackened the lockring a tad and all seemed well. After finishing the bike build and riding it a few hundred yards there was a "crackling" noise from the back, and the hub had too much play. I've obviously done something wrong, but unsure what. If it helps, with wheel in bike, if I spin the wheel but not turn pedals it runs fine. If I turn the wheel by turning cassette (no chain) I now get the noise. I wondered if there should be a thin spacer fitted before the cassette.
I was about to have a play around with the hub this morning, then I thought "probably a good idea to ask before I ruin something". Also,do you tighten the round nut at the end of the axle, then use the black plastic nut at the other end to adjust , then tighten the little screw? Sorry to sound so useless, but I did want to ride the damn thing by Christmas.... :?
Brucey
Posts: 44521
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: assembly of daytona rear hub

Post by Brucey »

if you put it together wrongly there are only two possibilities

a) that you put all the parts you have in, but in the wrong order somehow, or

b) you left a part out.

If b) then you are stuffed unless you can find that part.

The last year campag listed anything other than record hubs was 2007. At that time all the lower gruppos shared a hub design, and yes there was a spacer between the freewheel body and the hub bearings, and yes if you leave it out it will destroy the hub. You can download the spares pdfs from the campag website; these show you quite well which parts you should have and where they should go, more or less.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
aljohn
Posts: 59
Joined: 7 Sep 2012, 9:39pm

Re: assembly of daytona rear hub

Post by aljohn »

Thanks Brucey, I put everything back exactly as I took it out. Whether there was something missing before I bought the wheel - ebay - I wouldn't know. I'll try the Campag site for the pdf, cheers
Valbrona
Posts: 2696
Joined: 7 Feb 2011, 4:49pm

Re: assembly of daytona rear hub

Post by Valbrona »

So, when you fully tighten the cassette lockring it bottoms out inside the freehub body on the outermost sealed bearing and locks up the freehub body thus preventing it from rotating on the hub axle? If you are using the exact same lockring you were using before disassembly, then there is something wrong with your re-assembly. This scenario kind of says that the freehub is not on the axle quite far enough.

All that might be wrong is the way in which the freehub body is fixed onto the axle. I am not familiar with Daytona (which later got re-branded as Centaur) but there is generally a nut that you tighten - sometimes this nut is reverse threaded - and then a grub screw you tighten to keep aforesaid nut in place.
I should coco.
jb
Posts: 1782
Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 12:17pm
Location: Clitheroe

Re: assembly of daytona rear hub

Post by jb »

Assuming it is the one with the aluminium axle there is a tapered portion in the middle. The bearing cone is slid up to this. The axle is then fed through the hub with the Bearings in place. The other cone slid on then a split taper followed by the black adjusting nut with locking screw, adjust this to remove play and then screw the end cap on that engages the dropouts.
This is now completely independent of the free Hub mechanism.
The free Hub can be slid on making sure that the pawls and springs are in place, hold the pawls down to engage the ratchet then screw on the holding nut which I think is a left hand thread.
If you have not removed the Bearings from the free Hub the spacer will be trapped inside.

Edit: comma needed.
Last edited by jb on 15 Dec 2014, 10:06pm, edited 2 times in total.
Cheers
J Bro
Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: assembly of daytona rear hub

Post by Brucey »

I had a look through the pdfs and 2001 was the last year for Daytona gruppos, and that year the hub was identical to the record/chorus model, with cartidge bearings in the freewheel body, cup and cone main hub bearings and a pinch-bolt style bearing adjuster on the LH side. It is this hub model that jb is describing above.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
aljohn
Posts: 59
Joined: 7 Sep 2012, 9:39pm

Re: assembly of daytona rear hub

Post by aljohn »

I've regreased the hub bearings, don't think they were the cause of the noise, roughness. But the freehub outer bearing feels like it needs a little more than grease. To get at this I assume that I'll have to take the pawl carrier off. If I've read all the posts correctly it looks as though I have to unscrew the pawl carrier off the freehub body. This looks scary, I can envisage a collapsing pawl carrier (what is that thing called?). What is the best way to hold it in a vice? Or, more simply, how would you tackle it? If it all goes terribly wrong, could I buy a new carrier? I ask that because I have wanted a left hand gear lever/paddle for my 9 speed xenon shifter and it seems that I can only get it repaired by a campag official dealer... it's only a plastic (!) lever that even I could fit. But £40 labour plus parts makes it too expensive. So if there's a shop that sells spare parts please tell me where :roll:
Valbrona
Posts: 2696
Joined: 7 Feb 2011, 4:49pm

Re: assembly of daytona rear hub

Post by Valbrona »

aljohn wrote: But the freehub outer bearing feels like it needs a little more than grease. To get at this I assume that I'll have to take the pawl carrier off. If I've read all the posts correctly it looks as though I have to unscrew the pawl carrier off the freehub body. This looks scary, I can envisage a collapsing pawl carrier (what is that thing called?).


What you calling the inner and outer bearing in the freehub body? You can grease the outer one by carefully removing the seal, but the inner one (closest to the wheel) is hidden. Best to try and flood with a light oil rather than to try and grease in some way, however, it is usually the outer bearing which fails first.

Bad idea to try and unscrew the pawl carrier if indeed the freehub body is in two parts. Unscrew the pawl carrier and you might easily end up breaking the lighter alloy body.
I should coco.
jb
Posts: 1782
Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 12:17pm
Location: Clitheroe

Re: assembly of daytona rear hub

Post by jb »

I've done it once, as far as I can remember I left the pawls intact. The inner bearing is usually ok because it's surrounded by grease, the outer one can get rough though. There might be a circlip holding them in near the thread that holds the cassette lock ring, remove this.
I think that by inserting a screw driver or metal rod down the center, moving the spacer to one side and tapping the inner race of the outer bearing and it should pop out. (the diagram does not show the free Hub in bits)
Cheers
J Bro
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Mick F
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Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: assembly of daytona rear hub

Post by Mick F »

Take the outer nut off - left hand thread - and remover the freewheel assembly. You don't need to remove the cassette to do this, but it's better if you do.

The axle and hub are then free of everything and the wheel bearings should be smooth to rotate.
If that's ok, it's the freewheel assembly that is the problem.

Inside the freewheel body, there are two cartridge bearings separated by a spacer. The inner one is held in place by a circlip. You can drift the outer one out easily enough with a screwdriver and light hammer. The spacer just drops out.

The inner bearing is another matter. It is possible to weedle the circlip out of its groove but it's a delicate operation fraught with swearing and bad language. :lol:
One way, is to very very carefully drill a small hole through the body exactly in the right place, and insert a thin rod to compress the circlip to release it. I have done this and it works.

The later bodies have a real circlip with holes that take circlip pliers, but the earlier ones are plain but with a lip to hopefully accept a thin screwdriver ........ but it's a bugger. The drilling technique works if you're careful.

If you can get the inner bearing out, the two of them can be replaced with new ones. SimplyBearings.co.uk are a good source, but for goodness sake buy a new circlip with holes for the next time. By having a real circlip, you can release both bearings occasionally and re-grease them. Do that, and they'll last forever.

Good luck. :D
Mick F. Cornwall
Brucey
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Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: assembly of daytona rear hub

Post by Brucey »

all the campag freewheel bodies I've dealt with (which is probably just a small selection of the total) have had bearings in them that will come out rightwards, as others have described. So no need to unscrew the pawl carrier, just knock the outer bearing out, spacer comes out too, then circlip (which can be a sod as Mick describes) then knock the inner bearing out.

I'd only bother renewing the inner bearing if it was definitely rough; otherwise I'd just do the outer bearing.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
aljohn
Posts: 59
Joined: 7 Sep 2012, 9:39pm

Re: assembly of daytona rear hub

Post by aljohn »

Thanks again for all the help, I do appreciate it. It is the inner bearing that is rough -pawl end . I feel confident to try to remove the bearings now, it sounds less daunting than trying to unscrew pawl body. I did try locking it in the vice and using a sprocket and chain whip, but really didn't put any pressure in turning it. I bottled out, glad now that I did. Will try, time permitting,before Christmas. I'll let you know how I get on.
aljohn
Posts: 59
Joined: 7 Sep 2012, 9:39pm

Re: assembly of daytona rear hub

Post by aljohn »

Well, what a ball breaker. I had a couple of hours to spare this afternoon so decided to remove bearings and circlip from freehub. I made a bent screwdriver tool as mentioned by Mick F (?) and also had to drill a small hole as mentioned. These two tips made all the difference, it was still a bit of a swine to do but I doubt I'd have done it without them. The first bearing came out intact and is re-usable. The second came out in 2 parts and 4 (!) ball bearings. The circlip would need a peculiar tool to remove without drilling the small hole. It's one of those jobs you would really rather not have to do, and thanks again for the help.
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Mick F
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Re: assembly of daytona rear hub

Post by Mick F »

Well done! :D
Difficult and fiddly, but ok eventually.
Try and source a real circlip for next time?


Forgot to mention ........
If you can unscrew the pawl carrier, the inner bearing will still not come out because the thread is "proud" and not cut in. Consequently, the inner bearing is too wide to come out.

Also, forgot to mention, that if you buy a brand new Record hub, you can strip it down completely and all the bits can be used in your old hub. All you will have left is the bare shell.

If you add up the costs of new cups and cones, new balls, seals, new freewheel body bearings, you'll find you've bought a bargain. Also, your old Daytona freewheel body with the steel pawl carrier is prone to cracking. Honestly, this is true. It happened to mine and after that, I did a bit of Googling and found that it's a fairly common problem.

The new Record hubs have a better design of freewheel body. It's single billet of alu so has no screw-in pawl carrier. The screw system is constantly trying to screw in, and that is what can overload the alu body. The new design needs a slightly different axle, but that will fit in your hub just the same.

Here's the hub:
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... amphubr890
It's a bargain just for all the bits inside ......... and you can sell the QR skewer. :D
Mick F. Cornwall
aljohn
Posts: 59
Joined: 7 Sep 2012, 9:39pm

Re: assembly of daytona rear hub

Post by aljohn »

Cheers for that Mick F, I can imagine my freehub cracking what with the stress and the 2 holes I drilled.......! But it was great to have the bike finished on Monday. I started at the end of September building my Ebay Special. I bought most of the bits a piece at a time and it's worked out OK , well, it has for me. I rode it yesterday for the first time ,2 miles... A motorist turned right suddenly straight across my path after one mile! I couldn't believe it, I just managed to avoid the pillock. Ah well, Happy Christmas.
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