Raleigh Randonneur with damaged fork - repair or replace?

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hutchisonjtw
Posts: 5
Joined: 19 Nov 2014, 3:10pm

Raleigh Randonneur with damaged fork - repair or replace?

Post by hutchisonjtw »

Hi all, my first post here having been a long-time lurker.

I am the owner of what I believe to be a Raleigh Randonneur with Reynolds 708 tubing - I say believe to be because the previous owner had it resprayed so none of the decals are original, but I have no reason to believe it to be anything else. It has spare spoke holders on the left chain stay (although this seems to be the opposite side to some other Randonneurs according to this thread), and all the rack mounts that you would expect for a tourer. I bought it on ebay about three years ago.

Since that time it has lived outside and been somewhat under-maintained, largely due to living in a flat with no garden or covered storage. However, we recently moved to a house with a garage, so I attempted to give it a much-needed service. I bought a complete new drive train, cables, wheels (the front rim was severely concave) and a new front v-brake and lever (could never get the cantis to work satisfactorily).

However, my plans came unstuck (or the opposite, in fact) when I discovered that the stem was completely immovable. Following various attempts with twisting, penetrating oil, ammonia etc I gave up on the stem itself and cut it off to remove the forks with the stem still inside. I slotted this in four places with a hacksaw blade as per various online instructions, but still couldn't get any of the pieces to move. I then tried to drill out as much as I could with the plan of dremelling out the rest, but my overly enthusiastic drilling eventually resulted in a hole in the steerer tube.

At this stage I now have a few options:
- Get the damaged steerer replaced with a new threaded steerer and rebuild the whole thing - I have been quoted £91 to do this by Ellis Briggs (plus two way shipping of the forks)
- Get the damaged steerer replaced with a threadless steerer - cost as above, plus the cost of buying and fitting a new threadless headset and stem
- Replace the forks with, for example, these. Cost = £49 plus threadless headset, stem and fitting.

However, I've never found the bike that comfortable so I also wonder if it might be time to cut my losses, sell the frame and damaged forks for whatever I can get and put all the new components I've bought onto a new frame that definitely fits. I think the frame (24 inch) is probably a bit big for my height (5' 11"), but maybe with the ability to adjust stem height and some other tweaks it might be fine?

Would be interested to hear your opinions on whether you think I should keep the bike, and if so which of the available repair options you would recommend.
Jezrant
Posts: 868
Joined: 14 Dec 2007, 8:11pm

Re: Raleigh Randonneur with damaged fork - repair or replace

Post by Jezrant »

hutchisonjtw wrote:I've never found the bike that comfortable so I also wonder if it might be time to cut my losses, sell the frame and damaged forks for whatever I can get and put all the new components I've bought onto a new frame that definitely fits.


That's what I'd do, or rather, I'd look for a used frame that "definitely fits". Just my 2cts. Others will be around soon with their own opinions. :wink:
BTW, welcome to the forum. :)
mercalia
Posts: 14630
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Raleigh Randonneur with damaged fork - repair or replace

Post by mercalia »

get a shIney new bike. ITS CHRISTMAS!
Brucey
Posts: 44521
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Raleigh Randonneur with damaged fork - repair or replace

Post by Brucey »

one option is to convert to Ahead by using an adaptor. A subtle variation on the usual procedure would be to

a) bond the adaptor into the (trimmed) steerer using epoxy resin, and
b) secure the adaptor into the steerer using a long bolt that reaches down to the fork crown.
c) convert the headset to the (now rare) 1" Ahead style.

This way the now damaged part of the steerer (which I'm assuming is near the top) will not see any real stress. If by some freak chance the steerer should start to fail, the 'long bolt' should hold it all together nicely.

I'd expect you to be able to fiddle about with the contact points and get yourself comfy on that frame BTW; IIRC the top tube won't be ridiculously long or anything. Nice supple tyres and so forth should see you right.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jezrant
Posts: 868
Joined: 14 Dec 2007, 8:11pm

Re: Raleigh Randonneur with damaged fork - repair or replace

Post by Jezrant »

Brucey wrote:BTW; IIRC the top tube won't be ridiculously long or anything.


Don't know if the top tube is a problem for the OP, but on my Randonneur, the top tube is ridiculously long. :roll: I have a ridiculously short stem to compensate. :(

PS: On mine, the seat tube is 52cm c-c and the top tube is 56cm c-c. Maybe not ridiculously long for some, but too long for me. At least there's no issue with toe overlap with mudguards fitted. :)
Brucey
Posts: 44521
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Raleigh Randonneur with damaged fork - repair or replace

Post by Brucey »

I can't find a geometry chart for the Randonneur, but this is close;

Image

IIRC the Gran Tour is a similar frame to the 708 Randonneur, and it shows as built undersquare in all but the smallest size. A 24" Randonneur frame will not have a super-long top tube if it is built in the same way.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jezrant
Posts: 868
Joined: 14 Dec 2007, 8:11pm

Re: Raleigh Randonneur with damaged fork - repair or replace

Post by Jezrant »

Unless you've actually measured the frames yourself, you could be forgiven for guessing wrongly. The Randonneur had a couple of quirks in the geometry, and one of the causes for confusion with some Raleigh frames like the Randonneur came from how they listed the sizes. It was unclear what their listed size actually referred to. However, if the sizes shown in the chart you've pasted in for the Gran Tour refer to the seat tube size (either as c-c or c-t), then that chart does not apply at all to the Randonneur. The "52cm" Gran Tour is shown listed as having a 53.5cm top tube, but a Randonneur with a 52cm c-c seat tube has a 56cm c-c top tube. The 52cm x 56cm Randonneur (and Royal) frame was actually listed by Raleigh as a size 58cm! Another quirk was its lower trail than a conventional touring bike.

It's possible the OP's "24 inch" Randonneur doesn't have a ridiculously long top tube for the frame size. It's also possible whatever the length of the top tube, that's not what's causing the problems with fit. It would be interesting if the OP could give us some precise measurements of the seat and top tubes, if only just for the record, assuming it is in fact a Raleigh Randonneur. Mind you, the person I bought my Randonneur frame from (with its original paint) assured me the top tube was 55cm c-c, which was a cm longer than I would have preferred but was still worth a punt. :)
JohnW
Posts: 6667
Joined: 6 Jan 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Yorkshire

Re: Raleigh Randonneur with damaged fork - repair or replace

Post by JohnW »

Jezrant wrote:
hutchisonjtw wrote:I've never found the bike that comfortable so I also wonder if it might be time to cut my losses, sell the frame and damaged forks for whatever I can get and put all the new components I've bought onto a new frame that definitely fits.


That's what I'd do, or rather, I'd look for a used frame that "definitely fits". Just my 2cts. Others will be around soon with their own opinions. :wink:
BTW, welcome to the forum. :)


+1
Brucey
Posts: 44521
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Raleigh Randonneur with damaged fork - repair or replace

Post by Brucey »

I think that despite cm dimensions, the listed Gran Tour sizes are C-T values, hence the 'seat centres' measurement in the bottom row.

Raleigh frames were for years built with relatively long top tubes in the smaller sizes but my point is that larger ones were not and any way you cut it, a 24" frame (probably listed as 61cm) is not a small one!

For whatever reason we have used CT for the seat tube and CC for the top tube and if they are equal then the frame is built 'square'. If you compare these dimensions then in most Raleigh models all but the smallest ones are built square or undersquare.

I don't know why they designed frames with long top tubes in the smaller sizes, but I have always supposed that it is to avoid an overlap and/or compromised steering arrangement. I didn't think it was a great idea for all bikes, but in fairness I did meet a lot of racers who used such small frames and they often didn't need a shorter top tube. Touring is a different matter though.

Anyway as others have pointed out we don't know why the OP wasn't comfy. I don't think the top tube length is exceptionally odd on most raleigh frames in the 24" size, so I doubt that was the reason.

I'm happy to be proven wrong BTW!

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jezrant
Posts: 868
Joined: 14 Dec 2007, 8:11pm

Re: Raleigh Randonneur with damaged fork - repair or replace

Post by Jezrant »

Actually, I think you must be right. The Randonneur frame I have must have been a custom order. Looking again at a geometry table for the Randonneur that someone once posted on the forum a few years ago (a bad scan), the Randonneur geometry differs a bit from the Gran Tour but it's not miles different.

cheers :)
Attachments
Randonneur geometry.jpg
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hutchisonjtw
Posts: 5
Joined: 19 Nov 2014, 3:10pm

Re: Raleigh Randonneur with damaged fork - repair or replace

Post by hutchisonjtw »

Hi all,

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions so far - nice to find such a helpful and knowledgeable forum. A quick check this morning suggests that the dimensions are as described in Jezrant's geometry table for the 61cm frame.

In terms of the fit, the bike was causing some lower back pain and hand pain when using the hoods. I'm guessing this suggests the reach to the bars is too long? So could perhaps be fixed with a shorter and/or taller stem? But not an expert on fitting so please feel free to weigh in.

Other potentially relevant details: The bike is mostly used as a commuter for a commute of ~5 miles each way and occasionally for slightly longer rides at weekends, but it's unlikely to do much proper touring whilst I own it. More than 30 miles in a day would be very unusual. However, the commute includes sections of riverside towpath and occasionally rough and muddy farm tracks, hence the choice of a tourer rather than a road bike.

To those making the case for something shiny and new (or used but better fitting), any suggestions given the above details? I've been eyeing up the Surly Cross Check and LHT frames which are both under £300 at Winstanley bikes atm. Do these seem sensible?

Thanks!
Jezrant
Posts: 868
Joined: 14 Dec 2007, 8:11pm

Re: Raleigh Randonneur with damaged fork - repair or replace

Post by Jezrant »

Yes, very sensible. Even more sensible in my opinion, if you're going to buy a new frame, would be a Spa (steel) Tourer, which you can try before you buy at the shop. Depending on the parts you have from the Randonneur, you might run into a couple of little niggles transferring them over to a new frame but nothing too problematic. There are some good threads on here about bike-fitting with some good pix and advice from Colin 531. Worth a search if you haven't seen them.
SimonCT
Posts: 52
Joined: 12 May 2012, 3:33pm

Re: Raleigh Randonneur with damaged fork - repair or replace

Post by SimonCT »

I have a Gran Tour 708 frame. I bought it (new) in the early/mid '90s.
Its the same as was used on the Royal and Randonneur of that period - earlier models were 531 and different, don't know if there were later ones.

Mine's 55cm size but that's centre to top of seat tube lug which has a little extension.
Actual measurements are: Seat tube centre to top of top tube 54cm. Top tube length is 55cm, centre to centre.
So pretty much spot on the published dimensions for that size.

Not that that helps the original poster!
Jezrant
Posts: 868
Joined: 14 Dec 2007, 8:11pm

Re: Raleigh Randonneur with damaged fork - repair or replace

Post by Jezrant »

There's someone in Hampshire selling a Randonneur for £220 on Gumtree that might fit better. Seller claims to be the original owner.
fatboy
Posts: 3477
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 1:32pm
Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: Raleigh Randonneur with damaged fork - repair or replace

Post by fatboy »

I don't know what the cost was but Dawes changed the steerer tube under warrantee by sending it to a frame builder. Doubt that it would be very expensive. Do you know any tame frame builder?
"Marriage is a wonderful invention; but then again so is the bicycle puncture repair kit." - Billy Connolly
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