Uncomfortably numb (hands)

The fat commuter · Post by **The fat commuter** » 8 Nov 2014, 6:28pm

Evening all

After a bit of advice. Many years ago I used to ride a proper road bike with dropped handlebars. I used to 'pop out' and eat up forty miles without really thinking. A hundred miles wasn't unheard of. When doing these rides, whilst I would obviously know that I'd been out, I didn't have any real discomfort.

Wind on time to now and I have a different bike. It's a hybrid type commuter with flat(ish) handlebars. The grips are similar to these http://www.evanscycles.com/products/fwe ... p-ec041132 Not sure which way they are meant to be rotated. Currently the 'flat' part is forward of the handlebar.

I have a problem though on my rides in that after about 10 to 12 miles (about an hour's riding), my hands are numb to the point of being in pain. This is the whole of my hand(s). I do wear gloves, but not proper cycling gloves.

I am looking at ways to minimise this numbness. One thing that I thought of was to get some different bars. I was thinking of Butterfly bars but this would mean changing quite a bit of stuff. I'm also bothered about the strength as I'm quite heavy (about 17 st) and ride on bumpy Sheffield roads. Another thing that I thought of was to put bar ends on my current handlebars so that I could change my grip as I ride. I notice that there are quite a few different types though; straight, curved, etc. Is one particular type better than another or is it just a case of trying them out? Also, I'm assuming that I'll have to replace my grips for something shorter as the bar ends will take up about an inch of handlebar on each side of my handlebars.

Is there anything else that I should be looking at?

This is my current bike: http://www.ridgeback.co.uk/bike/speed - 21 inch frame. I am about 6' 1"

Many thanks in advance

barrym · Post by **barrym** » 8 Nov 2014, 6:42pm

I ride a hybrid with straightish bars too, and have never felt that the grip is not natural. I think that where you grip should be parallel to the top tube and not at right angles. Drops give you that option and if you cast your mind back to old fashioned sit up and beg bikes, they did too.

Just my opinion.

Cheers
Barry

Rcartes · Post by **Rcartes** » 8 Nov 2014, 6:47pm

I used to suffer a lot from this problem when I used flat bars, the answer turned out to be to fit grips which spread the load on the palm. The best ones are Ergon grips (they produce a range but the simplest are fine: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/ergon-gc1-handlebar-grips/), though other firms make cheaper ones that are not quite as good.

Positioning them so that the flattish part is at the back, and angled slightly upwards (the best angle you can work out by trial and error), works best for me, and I think really that this is the simplest and hte most effective way to solve this annoying problem.

531colin · Post by **531colin** » 8 Nov 2014, 7:42pm

Try this simple test.
Ride with just one finger on (each) handgrip, not your whole hand. If this puts too much weight on your one finger, then you are putting too much weight on your hands, and you need to move the saddle back.

The fat commuter · Post by **The fat commuter** » 8 Nov 2014, 8:37pm

Thank you for all the advice so far. I think that the first thing that I'll try is the one finger test. That said, the bike seat is at its furthest back so if there is an issue there then I'll probably be looking at replacing the handlebar stem and clamp for something a bit longer.

531colin · Post by **531colin** » 8 Nov 2014, 10:10pm

The fat commuter wrote:Thank you for all the advice so far. I think that the first thing that I'll try is the one finger test. That said, the bike seat is at its furthest back so if there is an issue there then I'll probably be looking at replacing the handlebar stem and clamp for something a bit longer.

Its a nice idea, but I don't think it works like that.
If you stand with one foot say 12" in front of the other and lean forward to hold an imaginary pair of handlebars, your weight comes onto your front foot.
If you then stick your bum out the back, you can balance your weight between both feet.
Lean further forward again, and your weight goes onto the front foot again.
I don't suppose thats exactly what happens on the bike, but its the easiest demonstration.

Following your link, I see the bike has a 74 deg seat tube angle. that's pretty steep, and it puts you quite a way forward....see here for the current wrangle over seat tube angle, it comes up very regularly! http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=91825&start=15

DaveP · Post by **DaveP** » 9 Nov 2014, 9:03am

I agree with Colin. Moving the bars away from you is going to increase the amount of weight on your hands.
Rest your open hands on top of the grips. Now, keeping your arms rigid, straighten your back slightly, so that your shoulders move back about an inch. Did you feel your weight move back over the saddle? Where are your hands now? They should be about an inch above the grips. The simple solution, IMO would be to try some riser bars, nothing exaggerated, a couple of inches tops is all you would need, just to get a more upright position.

On the subject of grips, unless I misunderstand you, it sounds as if you might have your current grips installed on the wrong ends. The flat bit, AKA the palm shelf is supposed to support the base of your palms. Precise angle to be established by trial.
Bar ends are a good idea. I would recommend keeping them short. On my bike I dispensed with grips and just wrapped the entire grip area, bar end and the corner with a double layer of Specialised Bar Phat. Hold 'em where I like now!
I can also recommend these:
http://www.tandems.co.uk/m7b0s38p194/VELO-Comfort-Grip

Malaconotus · Post by **Malaconotus** » 9 Nov 2014, 12:54pm

All the above advice is good but surely the simplest thing is to fit the grips correctly. From your description they are either upside down or left grip on right and vice versa. If I had sore feet I'd put the correct shoe on the correct foot before worrying about orthotics or hopping exercises. Grips should look like this...

Classtimesailer · Post by **Classtimesailer** » 9 Nov 2014, 1:49pm

First thing I would try is riding without gloves. Then raise the bars or move your seat back or what ever to take some weight off you hands.

mercalia · Post by **mercalia** » 9 Nov 2014, 7:32pm

You also need to consider the angle of the seat - the more down at the front it points the more weight on the hands, the more down at the back the less weight on the hands? This is useful for tweaking when all done?

Weimarunner · Post by **Weimarunner** » 9 Nov 2014, 9:01pm

531colin wrote:
Its a nice idea, but I don't think it works like that.
If you stand with one foot say 12" in front of the other and lean forward to hold an imaginary pair of handlebars, your weight comes onto your front foot.
If you then stick your bum out the back, you can balance your weight between both feet.
Lean further forward again, and your weight goes onto the front foot again.
I don't suppose thats exactly what happens on the bike, but its the easiest demonstration.

Brilliant post, great explanation.

Bowedw · Post by **Bowedw** » 9 Nov 2014, 9:30pm

Laid back seat posts are available which can be fitted without to much bother and disruption to your bike. I also have fitted some very curvy climbing pegs that came off a bicycle at the tip and I have bar tape around them ,this gives a similar curve to the Ergon GP5. Even so I still find a drop bar bicycle work better for me over distances.
The moving back of the seat does sound like sound advice and I am now going to price a laid back post. Expensive game this cycling

andy65 · Post by **andy65** » 9 Nov 2014, 9:31pm

I know there are people who ride with flat bars on the road and I guess they don't have problems, but I always have problems with numb hands with flat bars when riding on the road - oddly not off road. I think it is because the hand position is not particularly comfortable and you can't receive the pressure by moving.

Raph · Post by **Raph** » 10 Nov 2014, 1:46am

Sorry I haven't read all the answers. It would be useful to know how the numbness spreads, is it from a contact point outwards? From the wrist? Or does the whole hand go stiff? Disclaimer: no medical knowledge here, just sounding off on the basis of personal experience...

Is it possible you're making an undue effort to hold the bars, i.e. if you relaxed your hands would they just slip off? To an extent this is unavoidable (of course!) but if you're gripping excessively, the muscles eventually seize up.

I've never ever had a problem with dropped bars, possibly because the range of positions is so wide, but on flat bars I've found my hands are quite tense as they can't simply sit there passive, I have to be holding the bar actively all the time, and since the muscle tension never results in any movement, and the contact point blocks bloodflow, the hand seizes up. BTW I haven't the slightest clue what's actually happening in there, but that's what it feels like!

I sorted the problem with a pair of Ergon grips, they offer a wider surface for the palm of the hand to sit on, so you're not having to grip the bar, the hand can just rest there the way your bum doesn't have to grip a chair or your feet don't grip the ground. It also spreads the point of contact onto a larger area.

PS you mention bar ends, I also find those helpful for varying position. I didn't change the grips to fit those, I just cut the ends off so as to keep brakes and shifters in the same position.

About distribution of weight - I find it essential to get some of my weight on my hands; the bike pivots better over bumps rather than shoving the shocks right up your spine, and I very rarely get saddle sore, even on 100-mile+ rides. Also I find pedalling is more efficient when my centre of gravity is further forwards, over the bottom bracket, it feels more natural, as though my weight is partly powering the pedalling, though that may only be a psychological effect (but it works!). On all my bikes the stem is well below the height of the saddle, mountain bike included. I couldn't imagine doing long rides with all my weight on the saddle. I couldn't even sit on a comfortable chair for that long without getting a sore bum. I've never understood the notion that sitting upright on a bike is supposed to be more comfortable, for me it definitely isn't.

We have a tandem which has the bars really high (for me at least!), very little weight on my hands and yet they get much more numb and sore, and I often hold the bars in stupid places just to give a change of grip. This possibly supports the notion that having more of your weight on your hands is not necessarily going to increase the tension in your hands.

I'm also wondering if the angle of the grips is right - if you hold your arms in front of you and turn your forearms through their entire range of movement, the bit where your fingers are pointing horizontally inwards is roughly in the middle of the range - mountain bike handlebar grip is near one extreme, same as guitar left hand is near the opposite extreme. Old type bars that swung back towards you were probably more "ergonomically correct". So maybe you can get a slightly better position by swivelling the bars in the stem clamp, but if they don't sweep back enough maybe try a different handlebar with that in mind.

Also in my experience more padding is worse - it reduces your contact with the bar so you grip more and get tense. Huge great foam grips are the worst!

Apologies for any pontificating, hopefully some of that is food for thought...

mercalia · Post by **mercalia** » 10 Nov 2014, 7:27am

Raph wrote:
Also in my experience more padding is worse - it reduces your contact with the bar so you grip more and get tense. Huge great foam grips are the worst!

I can not disagree with you more! it depends how tight the padding is to the bar. It can increase the surface area to rest your palm on and decrease pressure. The bigger your hands are the broader the bars surface area need to be to feel secure?

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