The fat commuter wrote:I have never seen a cat or a fox get knocked over whilst it was wearing a hi-vis jacket.
I just get grumpy and feel we shouldn't be dressing like builders when we ride. I also think looking like we're wearing protective gear may encourage some drivers to take more risks around us.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
stewartpratt wrote:* For the research I've seen (which isn't exhaustive, perception-based studies do show an effect, but studies based on collisions and/or injury acquisition do not (even for reflective hi-viz at night).
Interesting. Is there an example of the latter study?
Since we're swapping anecdotes: Driving into Carmarthen on a dark Welsh (main) road. On a straight bit for once, with an oncoming bus. Behind the glare of the bus' headlights - darkness, in the darkness, perhaps a darker shape. Since I won't drive into a space I cannot see to be clear, I braked to a stop; as the bus passed, saw an elderly lady standing in the road and pulled alongside her. Apparently she was walking into Carmarthen (some 7 miles!), so I offered her a lift. As she got in, she asked whether it was her hi-viz jacket that I had noticed .... That was the first time I realised she was wearing one.
mig wrote:what is the definition of 'hi viz'..?? just a bright colour? or does it have to include reflective elements?
"Proper" high viz has an EN number, and defines the reflective pattern.
I'd suggest that high viz is anything except camo...
It shouldn't be hard to see something the size of a person...
A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way.No situation is so dire that panic cannot make it worse. There are two kinds of people in this world: those can extrapolate from incomplete data.
the only anecdote i have re. reflective items is, several years ago, i covered my work bag (carried across my shoulders) with 3M reflective tape. on the very first night ride i was given much more room by overtaking vehicles. i've since added patches of similar stuff to the mudguards and my winter shoes. i would agree that the earlier a driver spots a cyclist the better chance you have by the time they catch up.
Brucey wrote:I think for all professional night-time uses it must include reflexite but for daytime use maybe a bright colour is enough.
cheers
That's about right! But I wouldn't restrict the night-time use to professional users.
NB one mustn't forget the importance of peripheral vision, where a receding or cool colour is less likely to be noticed/attract the brain's attention than an advancing/warm colour.
Example: ever taken a photo of a nice view, and had it "spoilt" by someone wearing a red or yellow jacket, even as a tiny spot (Which "attracts" the eye) but where a blue or grey one seems to blend in unless you are looking directly at it?
Brompton, Condor Heritage, creaky joints and thinning white (formerly grey) hair ""You know you're getting old when it's easier to ride a bike than to get on and off it" - quote from observant jogger !
rmurphy195 wrote:Example: ever taken a photo of a nice view, and had it "spoilt" by someone wearing a red or yellow jacket, even as a tiny spot (Which "attracts" the eye) but where a blue or grey one seems to blend in unless you are looking directly at it?
Yes. Another way that hi-vis is anti-social: think of all the landscape/streetscape photos you're spoiling!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Last year I was riding on a (St.Andrew’s Road) road in Huddersfield. It was daylight – but November daylight. I was catching up to a cyclist who was wearing a hi-viz jersey – quite a long way in front of me. As I caught him up I realised that there were two of them, and the one behind was wearing a dark coloured cycling jacket – very dark brown I think. He’d been invisible to me. I tagged on behind them – about 50ft behind the rear one and he’d be about the same behind the front one. We’d be doing about 18 or 20mph. A car overtook me – slowly and giving plenty clearance, but as he tried to pull in front of me he saw the dark-clad cyclist at the last minute.
The driver was very good – he didn’t pull sharply into the left and cut me up, he slowed down much to the consternation of the motorist behind him who had to brake suddenly. I slowed down to let them in front of me – the whole incident lasted – 5, 10 seconds? Nobody was in trouble or anything like it, but in the conditions and against a dark background the first motorist had seen my hi-viz orange, seen the hi-viz yellow of the front cyclist and, not having seen our dark-clad friend believed there was plenty of space for him to overtake and tuck in. He didn't - but what if he had? To me the episode vindicated the policy of wearing something bright and hi-viz.
If the first driver had been a bad one, he may have hit the dark cyclist and excused himself with the notorious “sorry mate, didn’t see you” and maybe telling the truth in this instance.
OK, if it means being safer, I'll look like a builder any day. Hearses are black.
There is, of course, the very credible hypothesis that the two cyclists who were wearing hi-viz distracted significantly from the one who wasn't. In other words, that had none of you been wearing hi-viz, rather than you all going unnoticed, none of you would have gone unnoticed.
This is one of the likely problems of conspicuity aids: they become an arms race, and those without can be placed at greater risk as a result. If the above hypothesis holds true, which wouldn't be at all surprising (it's certainly an oft-cited concernw hen it comes to daytime running lights) then it becomes at least possible that using hi-viz simply gets us to the point where everyone has to use it, but no-one is actually better off as a result: we all dress like radioactive bananas for nothing.
stewartpratt wrote:then it becomes at least possible that using hi-viz simply gets us to the point where everyone has to use it, but no-one is actually better off as a result: we all dress like radioactive bananas for nothing.
Given a road environment where almost all other road user are either motorized or non HiViz pedestrians I am confident we are a long way from being invisible in a sea of HiViz jackets.