Yet another shimergo question

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brucelee
Posts: 290
Joined: 19 Feb 2009, 10:39am

Yet another shimergo question

Post by brucelee »

Hi,
Set up is :
frame Surlt LHT
Chainset Trutivia isoflow 52/42/30 on square taper BB
Front derailleur Shimano Deore (yea I know this is the wrong one for the chainset but it works)
Rear derailleur Shimano tiagra long cage
levers dura-ace bar end 9 speed
cassette HG50 12-27 (or 11-24 sometimes)
chain HG53
rear hub HB-T780 XT 9/10 speed

From my reading on the current state of shimergo, 11sp campy shifters should work with the above setup but I have some questions :
1) I'm looking at Athena shifters but there seem to be two that are the same but different on the market - the ones marked 2014 being cheaper :
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... 0000000000
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... 1000000000
anyone know the difference ?
2) Generally, has anyone done this, does it work ? The intention is to just drop in these levers and expect them to work with the kit I already have. Then maybe start using 10sp chains and cassettes with the hubub cable route and finally when the price of 11sp cassettes and chains becomes reasonable, buy a campag mech and use all the gears available on the levers but still using shimano consumables (I'll have an 11sp hub by then).
3) Read there maybe some issues with the strength of the spring on shimano front derailleurs and the front lever being able to hold the derailleur in position. Anyone had any experience with this ? campag derailleurs are conspicuoisly expensive.
4) Given the price of campag derailleurs , is there a way to use 11sp ergos with the tiagra derailure and 11sp drivetrain (like the wheel thing that sits on the back of the mech and adjusts the amount of cable pulled). Is it worth shelling out for a campag derailleur, are they worth the extra monrey?

Many thanks, as ever, in advance.
Cheers,
Bruce.
bryce
Posts: 110
Joined: 11 Mar 2014, 9:02pm

Re: Yet another shimergo question

Post by bryce »

Here's my experience doing something similar. I used Ultra-shift shifters not power-shift but from what I've read power-shift (Athena and below) should work too but with a little less spare capacity for the front mech.

I'd guess that you could use an 11 speed mech running hubbub routing, just as you'd do to run a 10 speed cassette with a Shimano rear mech.

It's likely that the cost of an 11 speed 135mm hub is going to be significantly more than the cost of a Campagnolo rear derailleur. Hope pro 2s evo are the cheapest option I'm aware of besides a ready built 28 spoke Shimano wheel.
brucelee
Posts: 290
Joined: 19 Feb 2009, 10:39am

Re: Yet another shimergo question

Post by brucelee »

Thanks, that's really useful. From what I've read, the latest Athena shifters (2014) can only go down one sprocket at a time...
I was a little confused by you post, I can't find Chorus triple shifters anywhere. It's all a bit confusing, I'm gonna get a 10sp chain and cassette next week and if it works in friction mode with the rest of the drive train, I might get 105 shifters.
Cheers,
Bruce.
bryce
Posts: 110
Joined: 11 Mar 2014, 9:02pm

Re: Yet another shimergo question

Post by bryce »

Campagnolo don't make triple Chorus shifters, they just make regular Chorus shifters with 7 positions on the left shifter which only 2 or 3 are needed when shifting a double.

They make two kinds of shifters now Powershift (Athena and below) and Ultrashift (Chorus and above). Powershift only has 6 positions on the left shifter and may pull a little less cable. Powershift also will only change down one gear at a time when pressing the thumb button. I have n't used Powershift but with Sora it wasn't a big deal to hit the thumb button a few times when you want to change multiple gears.

People have used both Powershift and Ultrashift successfully with Shimano mountain front triple shifters. There's more experience reports from Powershift users. I don't know what's different between Campagnolo's double and triple shifters, as their double shifters work well with triples. It's possible that they've tweaked the cable pull so the stops line up better with their triple shifters. To directly answer your question, you wouldn't use a Shimano road derailleur, you'd use a Shimano mountain derailleur like you already have with Campag shifters.

I suspect there's more write-ups with Powershift as people try to use a Shimano road double which uses less cable pull then ask for help to get it working and end up buying a mech like your Deore or my flat bar road mech (for a road triple but with mountain cable pull like me).
brucelee
Posts: 290
Joined: 19 Feb 2009, 10:39am

Re: Yet another shimergo question

Post by brucelee »

Thanks for the replies - the impression I get is you can't go wrong with the small ring or the big rings because the derailleur stops will take care of them so all you have to worry about is the middle ring which can be aligned with the barrel adjusters. I'm now tempted to try the doubles because their cheaper and the 'clicks' wont be in the 'right' place anyway - It's just a question of how much cable they pull.
Cheers,
Bruce.
Brucey
Posts: 44523
Joined: 4 Jan 2012, 6:25pm

Re: Yet another shimergo question

Post by Brucey »

yes but there are a couple of things you may need to think about;

1) trimming; some setups need trimming and others don't; front mech, chainset, frame flex, rider power (and expectations of how many gears you can use on each chainring) all affect the trimming requirement.

2) shift ratio adaptation; you can (without excessive difficulty) make brackets that clamp to the pinch bolt and alter the shift ratio of the front mech. Or you can just buy the campag widget (that adapts between two different campag front mech standards) .

FWIW I've had several MTB-based transmissions that didn't need trimming but I have lots of 'road' based systems that did.

cheers
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Brucey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bryce
Posts: 110
Joined: 11 Mar 2014, 9:02pm

Re: Yet another shimergo question

Post by bryce »

Brucelee, that was the impression I had too until I tried it. The derailleur stop works well for adjusting the small ring position but is of limited value for the big ring. The problem is the big ring position has to be on a click so it'll stay there.

What makes a Shimergo front set-up nice is there are plenty of clicks so I ended up adjusting the top click to be correct for the big ring, and then trimming for the middle ring. There's normally about three clicks that are usable in the middle ring. At the moment one click does the bottom 9 gears out of 10 with trimming needed so the top gear is silent.

When I was running a pure Shimano set-up it was often a trade-off between having the gears adjusted for clean running in the middle ring, and being able to change up crisply to the big ring. With Campag shifters, both are easily possible but trimming may be needed occasionally, especially to find the ideal click after changing back to the middle ring.
brucelee
Posts: 290
Joined: 19 Feb 2009, 10:39am

Re: Yet another shimergo question

Post by brucelee »

Many thanks, I'll give it a try at some point in the future. Sounds like the cassette indexing is good and if I don't like what happens with the front end I'll go back to a bar end shifter for the front (which I understand is popular with some people anyway).
Cheers,
Bruce.
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