Tyre Failure: A lesson learned …but what is the lesson?

[groberts]

I ride a 2006 Dawes Audax with 700x28 Panaracer Tour Guard tyres, which I have previously found to be a very good tyre for day rides and touring. I have completed a number of tours in the UK and in Europe with this set-up + two rear panniers and a 3kg Vango 300 Banshee tent without any problem, mostly on roads but from time to time on better surfaced tracks.

Back in June I undertook such a tour in France (at which stage the tyres were about a year old and probably had about 1,000 miles on them) which included about 40 miles of fine grit Avenue Verte track and have just returned from a trip to the Loire, the start of which from St-Malo to Rennes was on a similar AV grit track about 50 miles in length. On leaving the track out of Rennes the bike seemed twitchy, which got worse during the day. I took a general look but could not see anything so carried on but it got worse and I put it down to uneven loading perhaps. At the end of the day, having unloaded the bike, I was finally able to take a proper look at the bike and the rear wheel – which by then clearly seemed to be the source of the problem. To my horror I found that at a number of sections the tyre had started to delaminate, with the underlying carcass showing through, which in places was resulting in significant bulging of the side wall – surely the tyre was about to blow! Fortunately the local supermarket sold cheap Chinese tyres (€5.65!) and I was able to complete the remaining +350 miles without a problem.

One of three sections where the tread seems to have split / worn exposing the carcass

I thoroughly checked the tyres before leaving the UK and, as I said, have found these tyres hitherto to be excellent. I am now asking myself what is the lesson to be learned from this:
• Despite appearances, was the tyre too worn before setting off to undertake such a ride?
• Am I asking too much of these tyres?
• Was the tyre flawed in some way?
• Something else?

Finally, can anyone recommend a tyre that might fit the task better? The challenge I have is that there’s just enough clearance for 700x28 tyres, so any alternative would need to be of similar or, better still, smaller profile; ironically the temporary Chinese replacement is a much better fit!

[CREPELLO]

They're certainly not worn in the tread. You may wish to read these threads..
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=82262&hilit=panaracer+pasela+28mm
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=69542&p=603101
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=83979

[sreten]

Hi,

I'd say that is almost certainly a flawed tyre, and the manufacturer
would want to examine it and provide at least a free replacement.

rgds, sreten.

[reohn2]

I'd agree it's a tyre fault and looks like the carcass is coming apart under the tread.Panaracer Paselas seem to have had more than their fair share of such problems recently all in 28's IIRC.

[goatwarden]

That looks like the layers of the carcass have become unstuck from one another. It's a fairly safe failure as it is unlikely to suddenly let go; it should give you plenty of warning as the balloon will get bigger slowly (as the plys separate) and will restrict wheel rotation before deflating.

I had two Schwalbe tyres fail in a similar manner on the same day earlier this year. Schwalbe replaced them under warranty, for even better tyres. Good luck seeking the same from Panasonic.

[Brucey]

I am inclined to think otherwise; that failure has resulted in a severely distorted carcass and that invariably means that the fabric of the carcass is basically falling apart. This is not a mere cosmetic issue with a benign failure mode at the end of it; it is something that could result in a very nasty accident.

The only consolation is that the tyre distorted in a way that could easily be seen (and probably felt) before it blew out. But don't have any misconceptions, blowing out was not far away.

BTW the periodic nature of the tyre deformation is because any one ply takes a kind of spiral path through the structure of the tyre, and once it is compromised, it will often pull through elsewhere, hence the distorted shape and the loss of the tread in some areas. Very probably there will be visible damage to the tyre, usually somewhere near the bead.

As to a lesson learned; take a good look at your tyres once or twice a day when you are touring; you want to find stuff like this before it finds you!

And for a different tyre; well given your limited frame clearance I'd suggest that this is the most important thing. Some brands come up consistently a bit small so maybe one of the 28's that is really a 26 would suit you best.

cheers

[groberts]

Thanks for the replies, which seem unanimous that this was a failure of the tyre not a consequence of the riding conditions which I outlined. I was aware of the Panaracer TG issues but have always liked the way they ride and figured the problems were just very occasional so continued with them, not now. After this obvious ' near miss' I'm less happy with their potential weaknesses - it is clearly not a coincidence that they seem to regularly fail in the same way and it would seem irresponsible of the manufacturer to ignore the problem. Unfortunately I had just bought two new tyres before going away and just didn't fit them as those on the bike looked OK.

take a good look at your tyres once or twice a day when you are touring

Yes that is a lesson that I will practice henceforth!

Some brands come up consistently a bit small

Such as?

Was thinking of perhaps the Panracrer RibMo tyre or Gatorskins (which ones?).

Bye the way - does anyone have the contact details (Email preferred) for the Panaracer manufacturer?

[Brucey]

Contis often come up a bit small as discussed here;

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85983

and to contact Panaracer you can do this via their website, and this has worked for me for technical enquiries. However in the case of a product failure they may refer you to the supplying dealer. Worth a go though.

cheers

[reohn2]

Ribmo's are spot on for size ie; a 700x28 is 28x28mm fitted a suitable rim and are a very good touring tyre IME.

[Graham]

What is the lesson ????

You have a bike frame designed for audax - you are using it for laden touring.
You have a rear wheel suitable for day-rides and light-touring - . . . . laden touring . . . . ( see previous spoke breakage problem ).
You have a rear tyre suitable for day-rides & light touring - . . . . . . laden touring . . . . . .

The answer is never a definite sure & certain . . . . but each element increases the risk of failure at some point ( although other riders may get away with such configurations for years/decades ).

Your reported problems appear to be associated with laden touring.
Have any such things happened when you have not been laden touring ??

[rmurphy195]

The issue the OP has is tyre failure.

Tha panaracer tour guard is described (on Panaracer web site ) as "The Tourguard is a super reliable urban or touring tire." (http://www.panaracer.com/urban.php). So I suspect the choice of tyre is not the problem.

The problem is clearly not one of wear, but of either a faulty product (the tyre) or damage caused by a fault in the rim perhaps cutting through the tyre (which doesn't seem to be the case) or perhaps damage caused before the tyre was fitted (folded badly perhaps?)

[gaz]

The lesson I would learn is carry a spare (folding) tyre .

[groberts]

Graham, I am partly inclined to agree that laden touring might be an issue - I did originally pose the question, am I asking too much of these tyres? i.e. for laden touring. However, whilst the bike is not an out and out tourer, as an 'old style' Audax bike it is 631 Reynolds steel and more substantially built than contemporary audax / sportif bikes + was specifically made with touring in mind, with front and rear rack fittings etc. At the time of purchase, from a reputable touring specialising dealer, I reviewed these points with them and was satisfied it would do the job - of course there's a limit and I have used the same set up numerous problems before successfully. Yes I did recently have a spoke problem - on a hand built 36 spoke wheel made for touring about two years ago, which I purchased to improve the strength of the wheel's load carrying ability, I did not as a consequence increase the load any more than before, I take that as just bad luck.

Given the numerous cases of what appear to be similar failures with these tyres and my own experience, I have regretfully come to the same conclusion of others - that these tyres are either not up to the job or are intrinsically faulty in some way. Pity as they ride well. I shall therefore try and replace them with something that is better for touring. I have previously carried a folding tyre but it's just one more item / weight and I'd rather get the tyre right in the first place; outside of Europe / in more remote places I would take a different view.

Thanks for all the feedback, still thinking about alternatives so any further specific suggestions of tyres most welcome. In the meantime I'll continue with the cheap Chinese replacement tyre for the moment.

[Brucey]

I have previously enquired regarding suitable loads for Panaracer tyres via their website, and I got a sensible response fairly quickly (to my surprise). I'm sure I wouldn't be alone in being interested in their response to a hypothetical question regarding the usage you have subjected them to. If you do this before you point out that their tyres have appeared to fail under such conditions, you will know what to expect.

cheers

[Graham]

The issue the OP has is tyre failure.

Fair enough, I did go a bit global with my diagnosis.

The panaracer tour guard is described (on Panaracer web site ) as "The Tourguard is a super reliable urban or touring tire." (http://www.panaracer.com/urban.php). So I suspect the choice of tyre is not the problem.

"Touring. . . ".!!!!! Considering my own experience with these tyres and reading the experiences of others, there is no-way I would use these for laden touring. Wonky treads : side-wall damage leading to scrapping at an early stage : difficulty getting them to sit symmetrically on the rim . . . . . .
When all is right, they ride very well. Up until now I have weighed up the advantages and disadvantages and decided to take the risk ( for day rides based from home ).
But now I have had enough / read enough.
The last one of my Paselas will soon be worn and I will replace it with a Schwalbe Durano - to match the one on the back.

The problem is clearly not one of wear, but of either a faulty product (the tyre) or damage caused by a fault in the rim perhaps cutting through the tyre (which doesn't seem to be the case) or perhaps damage caused before the tyre was fitted (folded badly perhaps?)

Seeing a Pasela all twisted up for postage can be distressing and it did make me wonder whether this contributed to problems.
I have deliberately bought some from a shop to avoid the necessary postal contorsions.
Unfortunately, I cannot remember enough to make a correlation though.

I hope that the OP finds a suitable robust and durable tyre to put the Pasela episode into the past.
Touring is better if you can rely on your equipment and not have niggling doubts.