Reliability

[reohn2]

My bikes tend to be reliable,in that things don't fall off,need constant adjustment or parts changing regularly to keep them running sweet 'n neat,I was thinking about this when getting the new Vaya set up,it took a few rides for it to be absolutely spot on but once there it's 'right' .
I'm always reminded of my first 'nice' bike,that was once set up and running right was so reliable I rarely touched it between rides,except for putting air in the tyres and lubing the chain,which is great when time is tight which it used to be back then.
I reckon for over 6 or 7 years it ran sweet as a nut with hardly a spanner put to it other than the occasional check over and chain and tyre changes,the cassette,err sorry freewheel, IIRC seemed to last longer too but that may be me being romantic.
I'm finding the same thing with the bikes I own now,and I suspect it's because I build my own bikes up from the frameset and take particular care when doing so,I rarely strip them back down completely after initial built up,as I don't see the need.In fact the only bike I have done that with in recent years is the Santana tandem but that was with a view to treating it internally with Waxoyl and give everything a good coat of staring at and cleaning/lubing on the rebuild but then it is eleven years old now.
The frameset is the 'heart' of the machine,a good one lasts and is comfortable,careful selection of cycle parts,especially wheels(particularly hubs) and drivetrain make for long service life with minimum fuss.
TBH I'm into robust/reliable/lasting rather than lightest,that's no a slight against light parts but I'd rather have something slightly over built even if it's slightly heavier and for that reason I don't like the thoughts of minimum <32spoke wheels or ultra narrow 10sp chains,etc.
I do like XT M756 hubs,M591 Deore mechs ,S/T chainsets and UN55 BB's and find I'm coming round more to D/T levers on Kelly Take Offs rather than STI's,if only for their ability to go friction should I need to,but also because they're as convenient as STI's to use.I maybe just old fashioned but I reckon 9sp is as many as I want or will ever need with a triple chainset,though find 8sp ample on solo's.
Obviously tyres need constant checks for foreign bodies,cuts or deformities but that's a maintenance issue that's never skipped or skimped on.
Lasting durability is a nice word in a throwaway society such as ours IMHO .

I've just read this(which also gave me the prompt to post) though the title's a bit inflammatory it brings up some issues regarding safety and maintenance:- http://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/08/2 ... -the-line/

Perhaps a subject worth discussion?

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
YES you are "but that may be me being romantic" ! I.M.H.O.

I could be sarcastic and say "You seemed to of talked yourself into it"
But we can all do that too, its always failure that brings me back to earth, and others did'nt even notice my mistake or faults.

We all want and do sometimes think (some more than others) like that but reality is not so clean cut, or I am a rubbish mechanic
I think the link of the bloke about reliability / safety needs to find a new job How do you have so many spills
Does he ever do what he preaches.............................Or he uses the approach lets see what fall off

Best feeling is when you have worked on bike and you ride and you go good and you get home exhausted and bike behaved and took all you threw at it, it does happen sometimes even for me

[PDQ]

IMHO the two key factors in how reliable something is are simplicity and high quality. With, I suppose, good design a considerable help.
The modern trend seems to be exactly the reverse.
I believe this to be economically counterproductive in the long term. But then long term has become something of a forgotten concept.

[andrewjoseph]

I read the article the other day too. Blindly getting on bikes is asking for trouble and the author doesn't really do that, but some of the issues he has should be sorted by pre -ride check.

[Paul Smith SRCC]

Prevention can be easier and cheaper than the cure.

For me this simply translates to a clean bike is a happy bike, I've noticed that many enthusiasts are inclined to keep there bikes relatively clean. Now it's not necessarily the cleanliness I am referring to that can prolong component life, although for sure a clean transmission will last far far longer than a dirty one, but it's often during a quick wipe over that you notice something that may require a small adjustment, that if left may result in shorting the overall life of that component.

One the plus side these days bearings are more sealed and as such often longer lasting than ever before, perhaps on the negative side 11 speed sprockets and chains are lighter and more delicate and arguably less conducive to neglect than the old heavier duty 5 speed blocks once were.

[reohn2]

IMHO the two key factors in how reliable something is are simplicity and high quality. With, I suppose, good design a considerable help..... ....I believe this to be economically counterproductive in the long term. But then long term has become something of a forgotten concept.

I partially agree,ie;I like XT M756 hubs as I found them to be well sealed,smoother and last longer than Deore for the reletive cost,M591 Deore rear mechs are one durable item and the extra cost of XT,XTR(I have all three on different bikes)doesn't warrant the extra cash IME,

The modern trend seems to be exactly the reverse

It can be though not exclusively,there's certainly a lot of ''lighter is better'' and costlier though not always more durable I'd agree,but then cyclists eyes light up at the mention of 'lightness' the word used to be 'featherweight' which is now replaced the words Carbon and Titanium

[reohn2]

Prevention can be easier and cheaper than the cure.

For me this simply translates to a clean bike is a happy bike, I've noticed that many enthusiasts are inclined to keep there bikes relatively clean. Now it's not necessarily the cleanliness I am referring to that can prolong component life, although for sure a clean transmission will last far far longer than a dirty one, but it's often during a quick wipe over that you notice something that may require a small adjustment, that if left may result in shorting the overall life of that component.

I agree,I always consider cleaning as part of maintenance

One the plus side these days bearings are more sealed and as such often longer lasting than ever before,...

I'm not so sure about Shimano road hubs though

...perhaps on the negative side 11 speed sprockets and chains are lighter and more delicate and arguably less conducive to neglect than the old heavier duty 5 speed blocks once were.

I'm thinking the word mollycoddling could be a descriptive term where 10sp> d/trains are concerned,8 and 9sp seem to be the sweet spot,IMO it all went a bit too technical,with clearances too tight and finicky.

[Brucey]

IME in service faults arise from three main causes

1) poorly manufactured or specified components.

2) poorly assembled components

3) lack of maintenance.

If you buy an off the peg bike from a big chain, it'll most likely fall down heavily on 1 & 2 and if it is bad enough it won't matter how much of 3 you throw at it.

On the few occasions I've bought OTP bikes they have not stayed standard for long, I've immediately rejected some parts as being a source of trouble in the long run and just binned them. But even if the spec was perfect I would still strip the bike down and put it back together properly, so that bits that are meant to move are correctly adjusted and lubricated, and bits that are meant to stay put do so, and won't later seize in place through corrosion or whatever. If the build is done well, you can have years of trouble-free use out of decently made parts, just as R2 says.

I recently pulled an old favourite bike out the shed (where it had been languishing for over five years with little use) and used it for a few days touring. I think I fiddled with bar tape ( the handlebar had corroded underneath and I wanted to take a look at it), I checked the brake cables were not fraying, and put at shot of grease in the rear hub (through the grease port I had installed, which thus took about a minute). After that I oiled the chain, double-checked the throw of the rear mech, and pumped the tyres up. And then off I went. In view of the age of my tyres (and that there were others using the same size) I decided to carry a spare folding tyre, but I didn't need it.

Now some parts of that bike have not been apart since I built it, over 25 years ago. I have thought about stripping it down and checking stuff, but then I think... why...? I know how I put it together and if it hasn't started to go bad yet, it likely won't anytime in the near future. It certainly isn't likely to go catastrophically bad in a few days. A few weeks maybe, yes, and that would be different.
Needless to say in the few days we toured my bike needed a shot of chain lube and the tyres pumping up every day, and that was about it. All my companions had parts drop off their bikes or needed adjustments of various kinds. Actually I had a moment of doubt after one of my companions lost their left crank; I did check that my crank bolts were tight that evening (they were).

What I can say is that one of our number had a shimano EBB and although I don't know what condition is was in when we left (past that it had seen some wet weather use certainly), I do know what it was like after a few hundred miles; knackered. About 1/4" movement in the cranks.

cheers

[reohn2]

<snip>

I think the chap in the link is talking about the problems he's had over the 60+ bikes he's tested overall.
TBH if I tested bikes for a living I'd expect them to send me a good example that would need a normal pre ride check,otherwise their product would get slated in print which IMHO would be the suppliers own fault.
Likewise if the boot were on the other foot I'd be sending a double checked example,should there be the slightest of hitches,and for the same reason.

On this particular issue from the article in reply to a comment made:-

I don’t want to approach each bike with the mentality that it’s an inferior machine that needs a lot of fixing and checking before it’s safe to ride. I approach a test bike like an owner with a new bike: I am excited about riding it, and eager to try it on the road.

Imagine if automakers sold cars that needed a careful going-over after you buy them, and then careful checking every few hundred miles to make sure they are safe. Instead, you buy a car, drive off, and apart from routine maintenance every year or two (brake pads, oil change), you don’t worry much about it. There is no reason why bikes, which are simpler machines than cars, cannot be as safe and as reliable.

I have to agree with,it says more about the bicycle industry than it does about Jan Heine's approach to riding a new bike!

[iandriver]

I think a lot of self builders think along these lines. Looking at my own bikes, I'm a little more skewed towards the light weight end, but not enormously. Still like good hand built wheels but have gone away from steel on my audax bike, though my commuter is steel and my MTB is 853 main tubes. The Audax is my hobby bike rather than transport. I'm prepared for my hobby to have a little cash blown on it, though it hasn't been that OTT. If a kinesis alloy frame gets me 10 years, I'm happy at £30 a year. I'm a tall chap and don't fit a lot of the budget steel frames in 853 upwards. At the cost of the others/ bespoke, they'd need to last a lifetime just be evens.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Clean machine Yes.
Preventive Maintenance Yes.
Pre ride check, well for me I tend to clean the bike every ride in winter and when it looks grubby in summer, then Check it over and relube often, wiping off old lube on cable ends etc, before adding more.
Pump tyres every week.

A clean bike is easier to look after and gives pride in machine, well being feeling.

Motor vehicles Cars anyway, mechanics dont do much from the factory to road
Motorcycles, as I have had a few new ones, the mechanics put wheels on and handlebars even the petrol tank, so cable routing can be iffy.

Yes cycle makers, or maybe the pre road assembly out of box is to blame, as I would imagine that they come ina box and need some assembly first...............

[iandriver]

My commuter see nothing like daily maintenance. Lube chain about once a month, clean, well isn't that what rains for? There is an old trek fx at work that the rider uses every day come rain or shine, she doesn't drive. Don't think she's oilded the chain since new, is been red rusty the whole 12 months I've worked there. In reality, it's given a remarkable payback to the owner, it's around 10 years old and still seems to go on and on.

[fatboy]

As a daily commuter with over 3k miles per year maintenance is a bit of a constant challenge and the bike is far from clean. Generally it's reliable however the last two weeks have been very bad with a broken fork and front mech, I hope this is not a sign of trouble for the future!

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,
Cars, M/cycles, cycles, need more maintenance on shorter trips / mile, so I can ride 40 miles and do 10 - 20 mins and 200 - 250 miles in the same day but only clean bike and lube the chain.

Off road M/cycling is chronic on maintenance, in my trail riding days 6 hours work for 7 hours riding, cycling off road also eats the transmission.
Cars and M/cycles need some use or corrosion affects the pad to metal backing and older driveshaft rubbers perish if vehicle is laid up.
If cycles are out of the elements ( inside ) only the tyres need work if you have done the work right.

Cycling in rain of course will accelerate everything.

I remember buying a cycle new made from parts (they built it too) from Colin Lewis cycles in paignton preston (his first shop) and I got a better bike than the Peugeot that was in the window, @ £120, in late seventies.
I used to look at the price of bikes keenly and at one time (say 1982-4) you needed £ 250+ for a reliable bike, both my mates paid £ 170 for theirs and they fell apart quickly with busted rear spokes on both bikes My Koga-Miyata was £345 but it lasted way longer like 15 years before I had to start thinking of wheels.
It pays to buy quality but figuring out how much is not easy.

[tim-b]

Hi

My most recent bike came in a box, the first that didn't come from a LBS, but had been pre-built by the supplier. I stripped it down and rebuilt it (because it came in a box?), and I needn't have bothered. It even had a blob of grease in the pedal threads waiting for the pedals to be fitted. It only needed the handlebars and stem twizzling around, saddle height and pedals

The three before that were from different LBSs (I shop around and buy at the end of the season), one stiff chain link and minor tweaks like fiddling with mudguard fit

The biggest problem with buying a complete bike in my experience is the parts fitted that you wouldn't normally buy and their reliability while you wait for enough wear to replace them. Tyres are a good example of this

Regards
tim-b